Website debate

[Bob Thompson1894]

Bob,
Oh no, here we go!
How the hell do I do that!

Ken.

It appears that you need to use Google Chrome instead of IE, Ken. I didnt know that, I use Chrome because it is quicker than IE.

[stuart knowles 1611]

Build threads, as touched on by Mike B are the lifeblood of rc forums. They certainly warrant a separate forum section. If possible, the 'thread owner' and builder ought to have moderators rights over their own thread. (I have no idea if this is possible) so that spurious posts can be edited.

On the other hand, even if someone IS just sticking together two bits of balsa with gorilla glue and a 6inch nail, They deserve to have their contribution posted and respected. No -one has to visit a thread if they don't want to. It's all about keeping the forum a friendly and supportive placeto be.

While I'm thinking about it, A good forum does need active moderators, goodness knows why but there are some vicious people out there at worst, some just having a bad day maybe at best.

I'm sure that Paul is right too, an active website will need a fair bit of attention, both moderators and editorial. Too much for one person (who has a life.)

I'll butt out now
More power to your elbow Dave
stu k

[Bob Thompson1894]

I would agree that the main website is stale, there is stuff that has not been updated for years (not a criticism, I know how labour-intensive it is to keep stuff fresh) and I only look at the front page now, and then only on the 1st of the month. A magazine style website, with articles on shows, construction and stuff like that is ideal, but it depends on input from the members, and (a lot of) extra work on the part of the webmaster. At the moment, we have the journal for all that, so putting it all on the website would then give it all away to non-members. The Facebook page is excellent, with some cracking photos on it, but not much input from members. I dont know really what could be done to the website to hugely improve it without a dedicated team working on it non stop. The guys doing it all at the moment deserve all credit for an excellent job.

As far as the forum goes, it is an old-fashioned style of forum, originally a free one? Looking at other forums, (RCMF is a good example)there are much slicker, better styled forum templates out there, but it is only the look of it, it works, and is easy to use. Not sure it could be much improved upon. In short, it is all the best that can be done with the available manpower. You pays your money etc......

[barrie burton]

Mike Booth gets upset when photographs of balsa sticks interupt the flow of good photographs of high quality builds.What upsets me is the latest projects forum being highjacked by the professional model makers.Stewart Cliffords peoples project is a case in point.Are they proving how good they are?they must be,otherwise they would not be in buisness.Or are they getting free advertising? My rant over.To get back on track,the only part of the Web site that I read is the forum,I do that 2 or 3 times a day (just to keep my blood preasure up ).Could Dave give us the name of a site to visit that he thinks our site should emulate?

Barrie B

[Mike Booth]

Lots to consider on here then Dave and some really valid healthy feedback true to British manner.
There is a lot on the website that sits there 'hidden' to some degree just by the way the path to it is formatted on the homepage.
However one thing should not be overlooked and that is the time and effort required to run this and the journal.
In my view they are both pivotal to the life blood of the association, particularly over a winter.
I for one and I know there are many others, who, would want to express gratitude for your commitment and dedication to this side of the LMA.
Cheers.

[Mike Booth]

Sir Barrie, you are right with every point.
I think though, that you would be staggered if you knew how many models flying at LMA shows had been designed or built by me or four or five other gentlemen that have professional careers.
Our input is there not just for the pure love of the hobby, but for the advancement of standards on all levels, which is what the core idea of the very first LMA meeting that you attended was all about , if I'm not mistaken.

PS. I think you will find good old Stew' Clifford started the 'People's Project' purely to encourage more members to post their builds up on what was a static forum. As a case in point, it has been highly successful.

[Bob Thompson1894]

Well said Mike. The builds may be 'professional' but all the trade secrets are laid bare by the builders so that the rest of us mere mortals can ogle and emulate. And then we can ALL post our build threads....the lifeblood of the forum and the website is input, the poor old webmaster cant just make it up, he has to have the material supplied by the members. All he does is lay it out online in a pleasing manner. If he has nothing to work with, then there will be no website. As I said above, a great website costs money in setting up and running. Someone doing it in their spare time is what we have, if you want more, then there will be a need to dig deep financially. As it is, we get a good deal at the moment.
Anyway, the board is not 'hijacked', it is getting input, and no-one is prevented from adding more build threads.

[Steve Mansell]

I look at the forum a few times each day, but rarely follow other links on the home page. The Pictures of the Month is great, and the videos can be interesting but the home page is just the "front door" to the forum. All the meat of the LMA is in the forum.
I have learned an awful lot, and made huge improvements to my building methods through looking up how it’s been done by others, including the posts from people that may be considered professional builders. I have also found people willing to tell me where I can source certain items, and get opinion of others who went through the learning curve I am going through now.

One thing that may be useful is a link on the home page to a table giving details of how I can work out which electric set up would give an equivalent power output to various ic engines.

I must say the whole site never feels "stale" to me, and thanks to Mr Parry are due for his efforts.
Steve

[barrie burton]

Sir Barrie,I like that Mr Booth,respect for a miserable old f..t who does not like warbirds.How could we communicate in such a friendly manner without the skill and effort of Mr Parry that is too easy to take for granted.

Barrie B

[Alan Bithrey]

Dave, the idea of a "Members area" has been suggested to include the technical meat of the forum. Could I suggest that you really consider what's public and private very very carefully. Personally I'm of the opinion that only real LMA "members stuff" should be private, like membership renewals, access to any documents etc etc. That sort of information doesn't need to and shouldn't be public BUT the build threads, access to photographs etc generally should.

Bribing people to register so that they can see information that might have shown up by a search engine is counter productive to them and the forum. When desperate for information on how to fix my car, my washing machine, my garden shed (you get the idea) I use Mr Google and nothing hacks me off more than to have to register on the "Corsa Enthusiasts", "Garden Shedaholics" or the Wacky Washing" forums on the off chance of finding the information I need. If I get the answer great, if not oh well onto the next Google hit - what is certain though is that I won't be taking an active part in any of those particular forums!

Rather topically I've just had to register on yet another WW1 plastic modelling forum to see what useful photographs there might be. As I don't generally build plastic models these days and already subscribe to too many forums I won't be playing a terribly active part in it but it might be useful from time to time. It's my view that you register on a forum if you've got something to offer or (at the very least) say. So what if a few guests gain access to some useful information? It doesn't matter, if the subject and/or forum in general interests them enough they'll join anyway.

One other point - please can I suggest that you really encourage people NOT to use third party photo hosting sites and have a robust native facility for the pictures "on the forum". Nothing is more irritating then reading an interesting thread only to find half the picture links are dead!

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Alan

[Bob Thompson1894]

Dave, the idea of a "Members area" has been suggested to include the technical meat of the forum. Could I suggest that you really consider what's public and private very very carefully. Personally I'm of the opinion that only real LMA "members stuff" should be private, like membership renewals, access to any documents etc etc. That sort of information doesn't need to and shouldn't be public BUT the build threads, access to photographs etc generally should.

Bribing people to register so that they can see information that might have shown up by a search engine is counter productive to them and the forum. When desperate for information on how to fix my car, my washing machine, my garden shed (you get the idea) I use Mr Google and nothing hacks me off more than to have to register on the "Corsa Enthusiasts", "Garden Shedaholics" or the Wacky Washing" forums on the off chance of finding the information I need. If I get the answer great, if not oh well onto the next Google hit - what is certain though is that I won't be taking an active part in any of those particular forums!

Rather topically I've just had to register on yet another WW1 plastic modelling forum to see what useful photographs there might be. As I don't generally build plastic models these days and already subscribe to too many forums I won't be playing a terribly active part in it but it might be useful from time to time. It's my view that you register on a forum if you've got something to offer or (at the very least) say. So what if a few guests gain access to some useful information? It doesn't matter, if the subject and/or forum in general interests them enough they'll join anyway.

One other point - please can I suggest that you really encourage people NOT to use third party photo hosting sites and have a robust native facility for the pictures "on the forum". Nothing is more irritating then reading an interesting thread only to find half the picture links are dead!

Anyway, keep up the good work!

Alan

Totally and absolutely agreed. What have we got to hide?

[Dave Parry]

Hi Alan, our forum is as you have suggested already, we have a committee area on there that none of you see it would be no problem to do the same for members the rest of the forum is open for anyone to view hence the reason we have a low registered number. I don’t believe in forcing people to register just to get information, I don’t see the point apart from making the registered numbers of members on the forum look good. What you see is what you get on our forum.

On your second point our forum does allow you to upload photo which it stores but you can still up load from a third party site if you wish, I can stop it if I want to but I don’t see the point. I have said it before I like build threads and the advantage is being able to get instant response from other members on your build. But like everything else on this forum they disappear over the months and eventually it will vanish. The best way, is to have your build on the forum but also do it in an article, so when it is complete you can put it in the Journal that way you will have a permanent record of your pride and joy. Or you could spread out the build over a couple of articles in the Journal. “I sorry I have gone into Journal editors mode again” right let’s get back on track. I thank you all for your kind words about me and I do appreciate it, however it just shows how fickle this job is.

I had an email from a gentleman who was wondering why I hadn’t registered him as it had been over a month, so I sent the standard reply which is as follows:

Hi your account will have automatically been deleted because you have not followed the forum rules.
This Forum is open to registration by all...BUT USE YOUR OWN FULL NAME WHEN REGISTERING. This must also be your username...Users trying to register with pseudonyms will be deleted.

Please re-register with your full name that is your first and last name.

Regards
The Forum Team.

Now we all know there is no team but it save me keep putting my name to everything. The response I got just blew me away, I won’t go into detail as it would take to long but to cut it short I was told that I was aggressive and not fit to be the Admin and how dare I shout at him as no one shouts at him, he was referring to the ...BUT USE YOUR OWN FULL NAME WHEN REGISTERING.

This is the sort of thing I have to deal with everyday doing this job, how pathetic is that. I when on to say to him if he responded as aggressive as he did to me over something as simple as this then maybe this forum was not for him. I won’t tell you his reply I will leave it to your imagination, needless to say I am the one in the wrong not him, which is fine by me, I can’t get it right all of the time. I don't mind you responding to this but please remember to try and keep the thread on track.

[Bob Thompson1894]

some of these keyboard warriors think they have a set of rules all to themselves. Capital letters is classed as 'shouting'....what a load of cobblers....

[stuart knowles 1611]

Going back to the reasons for a separate 'members area' which gives access to more technical information and support is simply to give an incentive to viewers to join the LMA. The paying members are those who help to maintain and continue the LMA as an organsation into the future. If everything is freely available, - why would anyone part with an annual subscription? At the moment it brings the Journal to the doormat, a small number may use the insurance but I guess that most already have a suitable insurance from the BMFA. After that it thins out quite quickly until you start to talk about participating as a pilot at the shows.
In my view, I think it likely that over time the website / forum will start to take over from the journal so keeping a significant content restricted to paid up members might help encourage people to join us. As a matter of interest, RC Scalebuilder allows free access to anyone but after a few initial posts, if you want to continue to post you have to pay an annual sub.

As for the response from the person asked to use his or her full name, it never ceases to surprise me how some people use the t'interweb. Youy do wonder how they conduct themselves face to face, I suspect very differently
stu k

[John Rickett]

Stuart,
This sounds a bit like ' What did the Romans do for us'........One of the advantages overlooked is the access to the Over 20kg free inspection service. No matter how many visits it takes, or the distance travelled, the builder does not have to carry the inspector's costs. This is surely a significant benefit of LMA membership and possibly the principle reason the association exists.
Regards
John Rickett

[stuart knowles 1611]

Interesting thoughts John. As I understand it the LMA administer the over 20kg scheme on behalf of the CAA (?) and in fact membership of the LMA is not necessary to access the scheme. Therefore anything related to over 20kg model approval would (in my world) remain in the public domain

Personally I don't see the over 20 scheme as a principle benefit of membership of the LMA. I suspect that a substantial majority of the membership will never have cause to encounter the scheme and probably have no wish to. I do think that the LMA played a blinder when they offered to run the scheme on behalf of the authorities and, as a result of the fair and impartial application and management are now trusted with significant responsibiilities in relation to the scheme. All of which bodes well for the future of ultra large models however there are many who aspire to larger models that will not fall into the scheme.

All of this is just kicking about ideas. I was just trying to find a means of encouraging those who don't belong to the LMA now and who neither fly at shows or build over 20kg models. We know that its good to belong, but how do you show others that there are many positive benefits to handing over the cash and joining up?

stu k

[Alan Bithrey]

We know that its good to belong,
stu k

Absolutely

but how do you show others that there are many positive benefits to handing over the cash and joining up?
stu k

It is true that factors such as the Journal and the Forum are things that may encourage people to join the association but I don't believe they are the reason for joining. I joined because I was going to build a large aeroplane, I might have needed the services of the over 20kg scheme and basically it's the right thing to do. Whether there was a Journal, a website, a forum, a collection of hats had absolutely no bearing on my decison to join and subsequently to remain as a member.

Sorry, I'm not trying to under-value the sterling work and shear flippin hard work that goes into producing websites, Journals and maintaining forums for organisations such as ours for free and often with little thanks from the great unwashed. Indeed I give a significant amount of my spare time to a similar association albeit in a different field trying to provide, along with others, services to members so I do appreciate what goes on and what goes on unseen. As some of the Committee will no doubt agree, it's always the same merry bunch of voluenteers that put themselves out even when there's a pool of hundreds or even thousands who could assist but don't. But, however good the perpheral services are (and the Journal is a blinder now Dave) they are still not the reason I'm here. After all, I'm still a member of the BMFA and Alan C has eluded to an aspect of that which is relevant. Anyway, I wonder what percentage of the membership are here for the reasons I mentioned compared with those who've joined primarily for the peripheral benefits? It would be interesting to find out.

Oh yes, excessive use of capitals is generally regarded as shouting when used on the internet - it's a style and convention thing and is a way of addressing the lack of non-verbal signals in remote converstations as indeed are Smilies.

In the case Dave mentioned, it sounds like a bit of shouting was actually appropriate to make the point which had clearly passed the potential member by - shame he didn't pick up on the message! Personally, I don't actually agree with the principle that real names MUST be used (see what I did there?). On all of the other model flying and aviation related forums I'm a member of I'm known as Pup Cam for reasons that are obvious to people that actually know me. Of course registering with your correct, full name is essential but it doesn't need IMHO to be the published name. Whether I post on a forum as "John Smith" or "Scoodlebug" makes no difference to the majority of readers - they still don't know me but they will form an opinion based on what I write not what I'm called. I would like to use my standard "forum name" here but it doesn't matter, it's a rule of this forum and I am happy to comply. So be it.

Alan

[stewart clifford]

Wow, so much writing, if only all this interest and effort was put into model making, imagine what could be achieved? Dave you do a great job an the website is tip top. I'm a bit confused about people's project being for pro's, please go back an read the first post. As for pro builders and free advertising, I don't think there's anyone on here giving it the "hard sell" or "look how great I am". If the "pro" builders stopped putting their builds on here most of the forum would die overnight. No ones making a mint out of the site. The forum should be for everyone and everyone should be free to post whatever they want.

[Dave Parry]

Hi all, first of all I would like to pick up on a couple of point made.

1. “excessive use of capitals is generally regarded as shouting when used on the internet”

I can never understand who and why these people come up with this daft ideas, I can understand why people go off on one if they think they are being shouted at, the sad part is most people including me ‘and I use the internet a lot’ don’t have a clue about these unwritten rules and are totally baffled when getting an aggressive response on something that was nothing.

2. “I would like to use my standard "forum name" here but it doesn't matter, it's a rule of this forum and I am happy to comply”.

Now I am with you Stu, on this one, I was not a part of this original ruling if I had been I would have been against it, this stupid rule just causes more work for me and I would ban it in an instance. To further add to this I would also use Avatars as I think the forum is boring and out of touch with other, which seems to be the main problem with our on line presence.

3. “Wow, so much writing, if only all this interest and effort was put into model making, imagine what could be achieved?”

Agreed Stewart, but without these healthy debates how am I suppose to know what the members are thinking or want, I am not a builder I can’t seem to get any pleasure out of it, thankfully I am a keyboard warrior, ‘as Bob put it’ which is what keep our forum and website up to date.

4. “One of the advantages overlooked is the access to the Over 20kg free inspection service.”

I have to agree with John on this one, the amount of money a member will save if they are building over 20kg is worth every penny of the LMA membership, and believe me there is more than you think with over 20kg models, this seem to be a growing trend.

5. “Mike Booth gets upset when photographs of balsa sticks interrupt the flow of good photographs of high quality builds.“

Arr poor Mike in the firing line again, I just can’t see a reason why professional builders that provide a service and some great insight on how things are done, can’t have their company name and a forum section of their own on here, “free advertising I here you say” ‘why not’ providing it is to do with Large Model builds and accessories and not these cheep foamy toys and bog standard club size models. After all we are the Large Model Association not the British Model Flying Association.

Now no doubt someone will tell me I am wrong if so then that is fine after all isn’t this what it is all about “debate”.

[Bob Thompson1894]

No Dave, your'e NOT wrong... and thats shouting about it!
edit: As far as the 'use of correct names' thing goes, IIRC..(thats forumspeak for 'if I remember correctly'....) with the old forum being open to all, there were a lot of really rubbish posts put up, which got everyone a bit miffed, and the insistence was then on going public with your name. It may be a bit OTT (there I go again ) to have to register AND give your correct name online.