new registration rebellion

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Steve Perry
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Steve Perry » June 1st, 2019, 8:23 pm

Would I be correct in guessing that the online test will only be on air law such as CAP numbers just in case someone has added a clause or comma during the previous year ?

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Rob Buckley
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Rob Buckley » June 2nd, 2019, 7:03 am

No, because nobody would pass that so even the Gub'mint know that would be pointless.

It will as I believe be along the lines of...

What is the height limit for flying your drone?
a. 400ft
b. 12 miles
c. 10ft
d. dairylea

and so on
LMA Secretary - I've got a reasonable idea where you live!

Bob Thompson1894
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » June 2nd, 2019, 7:43 am

about what I thought. It has to be so pathetic that everyone actually passes, its just to make sure you have read the regs.
Question 2: can I fly my drone a) in the supermarket? b) on the M1? or c) in a field miles from anywhere.

Steve Perry
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Steve Perry » June 2nd, 2019, 9:43 am

Question 1. Do you fly a multi rotor drone Yes / No

If you answered No to question 1. then you have finished the test.

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Rob Buckley
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Rob Buckley » June 5th, 2019, 5:48 pm

Representatives from the UK Model Flying Associations met with the Aviation Minister, Baroness Vere of Norbiton at the Department for Transport yesterday (Tuesday 5th June 2019).

Whilst the meeting provided a good opportunity for both sides to clarify their position and understand each other’s priorities, there is little in the way of good news to report to our members.

It was clear that the government sees the public order and security risk posed by unmanned aircraft as very serious, which is influencing their stance, especially on operator registration. We were informed that the details of how this approach will be applied by the police and the additional legal responsibilities placed on unmanned aircraft operators will be clarified in the Drones Bill which is expected to be published soon.

We were told that the government has the aim of introducing rules now that will enable all airspace users, manned and unmanned, to coexist in the future without having to rewrite the rules in the near future to account for new technology or the forecast increase in low altitude traffic. Model aircraft flyers will be users of this airspace, so the rules will apply to us.

As such, the Minister insists that all those operating unmanned aircraft (including model aircraft) will be treated in the same way and that a registration fee will be due from everyone along with the requirement to demonstrate competence. The Minister strongly believed that an ‘insignificant’ fee and mandatory test would not be barriers to participation.

Provisions within the EU regulations for model flying conducted within the framework of Associations (to apply targeted regulations which specifically allow model flying to continue as it does today) were robustly set aside as the Government is only concerned with UK law for now.

Similarly, previously published UK Government policy has also been set aside, in particular the 2017 Government Strategy (Unlocking The UK’s Hi-Tech Economy) which stated that the Government would “…work with model aircraft flying clubs to examine ways in which it may be possible to exempt members of model aircraft flying clubs with adequate safety cultures and practices from certain elements of registration and other educational requirements….”.

Whilst the Baroness was very clear that model flyers are not a special case, we were invited to submit our proposals for a pragmatic solution to the DfT for their consideration (albeit within some exceptionally inflexible constraints). Our proposals will be largely as communicated previously and we will submit them in due course.

We will continue to engage constructively with DfT and the CAA on this issue, as they have been clear they want to keep the channels of communication open.
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Bob Thompson1894
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » June 6th, 2019, 6:42 am

So Amazon wins. I have just posted this on another forum-

This is the sinister bit- We were told that the government has the aim of introducing rules now that will enable all airspace users, manned and unmanned, to coexist in the future without having to rewrite the rules in the near future to account for new technology or the forecast increase in low altitude traffic. Model aircraft flyers will be users of this airspace, so the rules will apply to us.
Do I see the hand of Amazon here?
Who is going to police this? Why we are, of course. A condition of insurance is that we fly legally, so as well as checking members are properly insured, clubs will have to check they are registered and have passed the test. Its a win win for the DfT who can then easily restrict us more in the future and we do the work for them.
I forecast a twenty to thirty percent reduction in legal model fliers, as a lot will simply think its not worth it and go fishing. And if model flying in the UK is destroyed? Free rein for the Government to licence the low altitude airways to commerce. Gentlemen, we have been bent over and shafted


Steve Perry
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Steve Perry » June 6th, 2019, 4:26 pm

I hope Jane Wakefield the author of that BBC article is being sent complementary tickets to the LMA Cosford show !

Alan Cantwell 1131
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » June 6th, 2019, 5:05 pm

Bob Thompson, see, you agree with my Synopsis on we’re this is all heading?

Steve Mansell
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Steve Mansell » June 6th, 2019, 6:43 pm

Could the combined offices of the LMA and BMFA mount a legal challenge, citing the onerous burden and cost of running a duplicated system for no benefit, and the disregarding of the government's own (and E U) published guidance. There may also be a case that these regulations remove a freedom, and replace it with a chargeable privilege.

Steve

Bob Thompson1894
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » June 7th, 2019, 8:54 am

Alan Cantwell 1131 wrote:Bob Thompson, see, you agree with my Synopsis on we’re this is all heading?

Its becoming blindingly obvious, Alan, but I still cant see drone deliveries working in the UK. I have the only back garden in the entire street that a drone could get in to...

Bob Thompson1894
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » June 7th, 2019, 9:06 am

Steve Mansell wrote:Could the combined offices of the LMA and BMFA mount a legal challenge, citing the onerous burden and cost of running a duplicated system for no benefit, and the disregarding of the government's own (and E U) published guidance. There may also be a case that these regulations remove a freedom, and replace it with a chargeable privilege.

Steve

This happened in the US with a good result, I believe. The whole thing is unenforceable, and relies on the law abiding model flyer to subsidise the control of it all. If we all ignore it, it will be impossible to make it work. No lone drone flyer is going to register. Catching anyone in the act is impossible, as proven by the Gatwick incidents, all they could ever do is raid a known flying site and arrest people doing no harm whatsoever. My thoughts are that it will be financially untenable, the Government has chucked a couple of million at the DfT to get it running, and they want that back. The numbers of people who will pay it is going to be a maximum of 35,000 legal and insured model flyers. Anyone remember CB radio?

Glenn Masters
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Glenn Masters » June 7th, 2019, 12:28 pm

As I see it, the biggest headache from this is that the *authorities* or whoever is responsible for nuisance unmanned drones, or otherwise, will not seperate them from our model aircraft operation, either within a club or otherwise. As we have all been classed as one group, then real problems for us will arise from an idiot drone pilot who accidentally or otherwise causes a major incident will surely affect us all. Why cant the authorities be made aware of the glaringly obvious differences between drone operation and controlled model aircraft flying we all enjoy within an already regulated club envoirnment . . .

Bob Thompson1894
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » June 7th, 2019, 1:22 pm

We have been pushing that view since day one Glenn. It is simply ignored by the DfT. They have ruled that we are all the same. 6,000 people emailed their objections to this, it should have been 35,000. Oddly enough, the same percentage of club members who actually do anything to help run a club... :roll:

Steve Mansell
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Steve Mansell » June 7th, 2019, 2:30 pm

This is a quote from the reply I had from the CAA:

"Model aircraft associations or clubs as operators: model aircraft associations or clubs would have the option of registering as the operator with their members acting as remote pilots. In this scenario, the association or club would need to meet any legal requirements and take accountability and responsibility for the actions of their members, and members would need to abide by the remote pilot requirements."

If clubs and associations register as operators, and members as flyers, then the receipt of funds will be in the region of hundreds of pounds. Can't see that paying for much!

Steve

Bob Thompson1894
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » June 7th, 2019, 2:51 pm

I'm not sure how the liability insurance would cover the 'actions of members', in that scenario. I dont think I would like to take responsibility for some of our members!

Dave Kellett
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Dave Kellett » June 27th, 2019, 4:36 pm

Who's got the K-Y jelly
Because we really are being shafted

Dave

Steve Mansell
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Steve Mansell » June 28th, 2019, 2:44 pm

Xjet sums it up very well!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YgGG3LmuSj0
Steve

Dave Hayfield
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Re: new registration rebellion

Postby Dave Hayfield » July 16th, 2019, 10:09 am

Well done Dave Stevens ( if you are our LMA Dave Stevens) on getting a letter published in this week's Flight International. I sent a letter to the magazine about 3 or 4 weeks ago with exactly the same content as yours. It seems to me that the powers that be do not have any idea regarding our hobby but I'm sure many pilots and engineers have their careers based on model aircraft. I don't know if anyone will take any notice, the government and CAA seem to have their heels well dug in, but for the sake of the hobby we can only hope. :cry:
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