BMFA London Area Club looking for UK members

[Rob Buckley]

Who's Dave, and why would he know?

It's not illegal to make multiple insurance claims at all. You can have as many life insurance policies as you like, and when you die a claim is made and they all pay out.

What is naughty is to have multiple insurance policies for the same thing, and to claim off them individually without telling the insurers about each other. (Like in the good old days of hiring a derelict ship & a foreign crew, over-insuring it with multiple policies, than making a killing when it sank).

Our model insurance policies have 'contribution clauses' which state that, if cover is provided by another insurance policy and a claim is made, each respective insurer would only pay their share of the claim.

If you're forced to make a claim, the insurer may will ask whether there are any other policies that could cover the incident.

If you do have cover with another policy, the insurer could ask the other company to make a contribution. The companies would then calculate a proportionate amount of excess for both policies.

This also means that you would be making two claims, but not illegal as the insurers know about it.

If you like long words, read page 4 of this...

http://www.cila.co.uk/files/contribution.pdf

[Peter Siggins]

Crickey Rob I hope I never have to claim !!!

Need a lawyer to sort that lot out.We need some clarification of the claims procedure in layman's English.
As Bob says do we pay twice the excess or is it divided by two for flyers who belong to both ?

Pete

[Alan Cantwell 1131]

Robs spoke, best shut up, what do i know, A lot, i can assure you, but the commitee can sort it out, sod it,

[Bob Thompson1894]

Sorry Rob. Why do they call you Dave then? (Trigger in Only Fools)
Well, I imagine if I was at my own club and an incident occurred I would claim from BMFA, and if at an LMA event, from the LMA. However, there will be circumstances where you would be left wondering. The LMA always say that their insurance is 'best for large models'- why? Is there any difference, and which one should you claim on (and inform the other?) As Peter says, laymans language please....

[Rob Buckley]

Alan, I'm not sure what the problem is, care to elaborate?

So basically...

If you suffer an incident that might result in a claim, you need to tell either the LMA or the BMFA, but you also need to tell them if you're a member of any other association that also gives you insurance. (If you're a member of both the BMFA and the LMA for example, you could tell the BMFA about the incident, but also that you're an LMA member).

If a claim then happens against you, it would be against the insurance you told about it (In this example the BMFA, and that's where you'd need to pay any excess). If an insurance payment is made, the BMFA's insurers would then try and get some money out of the LMA's insurers, and they would argue amongst themselves about who pays what.

Simples!

The phrase about the LMA's insurance being best for large models is a bit of a hangover from the olden days, these days it's basically the same as the BMFA and the SAA as far as the model flying insurance goes.

[Bob Thompson1894]

Thanks Dave.

[Alan Cantwell 1131]

Its not you Rob, its just that i know what i am about in this, and i dont need the view of Andy Symonds, or any other BMFA person, and i remember the work you put in, and the surprising way it was so easily dismissed at the AGM, it should have been carried in favour, I think we were all surprised on that day, perhaps the point needed more explanation, i think the LMA manages itself far better than the BMFA, and i think the next year will prove just that,

[stuart knowles 1611]

It does seem a bit dim to be buying two policies that do the same thing. All anyone needs is the one policy that covers what it needs to, there's nowt gained by having two.
I can see that sorting out the admin would be a nightmare but personally I would rather the money spent on the second policy go to a worthy cause or charity.

If the BMFA insurance and the LMA insurance is basically the same, is it impossible to check a membership against a centralised database and divert the insurance element into a charity fund?

I was at the AGM when this was discussed but can't remember the detail of why it was voted down

stu k

[Alan Cantwell 1131]

Because the insurance aspect was a tenner, it was seen to be not worth the hassle, but, if you have a claim, then it a whole heap of hassle, and possibly 2 lots of excess, our club has adopted a lma member joins as a guest, therefore getting round the affiliation aspect, but they have no say in the club, but at least they save the bmfa fee, an association they want nothing to do with, i only join to use the classifieds! So far, i am in proffit!

[Rob Buckley]

I put quite a lot of work into coming up with a draft arrangement with the BMFA about insurance, but it was overwhelmingly rejected by the members who came to the AGM a few years ago, so that's where it is.

Don't forget that the model insurances don't just cover model flying. If you're an LMA examiner, official, show helper etc. etc. it covers you, as does the personal accident insurance we give you for nothing. The BMFA cover is also for examiners, instructors, club officials etc. etc., and if folk picked and chose which insurance they had, they could well end up not being insured for something.

[ChrisBerry]

I can't see what the issue is here. Both the BMFA and LMA have their place. Both do their bit for the hobby and both have a significant following. I don't see the issue with being in both organisations as many of us are. Its not about being either/or, it can be both.

Over the years i've heard varying degrees of 'moaning' about both associations. "The LMA is only for the rich elite", "The BMFA is old fashioned and outdated"

Surely its horses for courses, be it free flight or large scale aircraft, does it matter?

At the end of the day its about us all flying non full size aircraft of one sort or another as an enjoyable hobby, to a degree that we are happy with and can afford and hopefully encourage more people to it.
In terms of subs, be it LMA or BMFA, even combined its still less than £1 a week and even with local club subs its not going to break the bank.

Dave P, I'm interested to know where you fly on a regular basis? Is it in a club, BMFA or LMA or neither?

Just my thoughts.
Cheers
CB

[Bob Thompson1894]

The money would seem to be unimportant at a tenner. However, if 50% of LMA members are also BMFA members, that is £5,000 that could be put to a better use...

[stuart knowles 1611]

My point exactly Bob. I will always be a member of the BMFA and the LMA, both organisations have a purpose and membership of both adds to my enjoyment of model flying.

Buying two lots of insurance is pointless and just contributes to the profits of a commercial company. I would soon see the money presently being spent on the second insurance going to a worthy cause if possible.

I wouldn't die in a ditch over it and as has been said, individually the extra cost is negligible but add it all together it comes to a tidy sum that could be put to a good purpose.

If we are being told that its not possible, let it rest

stu k

[Dave Parry]

Hi Chris, I fly at Woodford on a regular basis, LMA only, I am also a member of the Southport club who embrace both associations.

[Bob Thompson1894]

Just noticed on here that Alan mentioned "two lots of excess". Please note that with the BMFA (and I presume LMA) there is NO excess to be paid.

[Dave Hayfield]

Hi Bob, if you scan down the LMA insurance certificate it states that; EXCESS... £350 in the event of loss of or damage to third party property.
I had never noticed this before but some comments I heard a while ago made me look again at our policy. Not as if it is a large sum, considering what we are doing, but just did not know about it.

[Bob Thompson1894]

That settles the question. Not even going to mention the LMA in the event of an 'incident'....

[Rob Buckley]

From the insurance summary that's been available for a few years under Resources>Insurance above-

It is important that all incidents that may give rise to a claim are reported to us as soon as possible after the event. This will enable Insurers to carry out investigations at an early stage whilst information relating to the claim remains fresh in the mind. This will also ensure that you are complying fully with your policy terms and conditions.

Don't forget that a claim could appear up to 6 years after the 'incident', so if you've not reported it promptly to the LMA and thus the insurers, don't be too surprised if that does not go entirely well for you if you've tried to save the risk of a few quid excess.

Every year I have to sign a declaration that there's not been any 'incidents' that may cause an insurance claim, so don't make me lie by trying to keep something quiet.

[Bob Thompson1894]

So, let me get this straight. I am flying on a nice sunny day, lose orientation in the sun and crash my model into Jims car, causing £350 damage. I contact the BMFA and they say, "fine, job done". Now, being the upstanding citizen I am, I have to tell the BMFA that I am also insured with the LMA. They accept 50% of the liability, fine. Then. the LMA turn round to me and say "thats £350 excess please" Is that what you are saying? If so then something needs to be done, and the first thing would be to inform all members of their liability....

[Peter Siggins]

Hi Bob,

I don't think many members realised the excess was £350 - I for one didn't.If the insurers are the same company,surely the terms for LMA should be the same as the BMFA??

Pete