Bradford seminar

[paul hughes]

I have just noticed that the Bradford meeting (once haigh hall) has not been listed in the events calander. Has it been replaced by the trafford centre exhibition? If so will it be free entry for LMA members as was the previous seminars or will members have to pay the £16 entry fee?

[DAVE JOHNSON]

Hi Paul yes as explained at the AGM ---we felt the outlay of running the Bradford event wasnt justified because of the very poor turnout of member support at last years event --so we have been offered a large display area at Event city ,we are only a very small part of a very large and interesting show there,and as such we dont have any control on prices etc,all the members who have booked in with me to display models will obviously get free passes.If members pledge their support for a future event up in the north,maybe we could consider running at some future time at a suitable venue----DAVE

[paul hughes]

As you say Dave, The LMA are a very small part of this exibition. From what i saw at my visit last year most of the people there were model engineers or interested non modelling public. The area set aside for your models was a nice big space,too big i felt to fill with static aircraft although it did allow you to start engine and drive your models round. do we know if the traders who have supported the previous LMA only events will be at this show?

[Phil Clark]

I for one (as a trader) will not be supporting the new Manchester event. I received all the necessary booking information from them for a trade plot, but the cost involved was staggering. Granted, it's a 2 day event, but to charge me (a small business in comparison to the likes of Al's etc...) almost £ 600 + VAT for a plot the same size as I have at Gaydon makes this completely out of the question. Add to this my travel costs from Durham to Manchester & back, 2 night accomadation for 2 people, plus weekend food etc......I'd be looking at a weekends bill of at least £ 1,000. Considering this isn't a dedicated LMA event & the majority of the visiting public won't be dedicated aircraft people, the chances of me even breaking even I'd say are very slim if not non-existent.

I told the organisers this and asked if they could do anything with trade plot prices by they flatly refused.

I'd imagine I'm not the only trader with this opinion......a shame, as I think this could have been a good event given the location.

Phil (Fighteraces)

[stuart knowles 1611]

The costs mentioned at the AGM did seem to be a lot given the numbers that attended although I thought that the Bradford venue was much better than the Haigh Hall/ Brittania Hotel. Haigh Hall used to be a packed venue so I can't imagine why Bradford was so underwhelmed- anyone care to comment??

Personally, I don't think that the Manchester event is a substitute for an LMA centred one. The objections outlined by Phil above are understandable and the gate price will deter many others including me.

What is needed is a dedicated LMA pre season show at an interesting venue at a cost which is affordable to LMA, Traders and people coming through the door.. (not much there then!) Even if it's too late for 2013, I hope that someone will come forward with a suggestion that meets the criteria and which gains wide support. Whomever negotiated the deal at Gaydon struck gold but even though Gaydon don't pick up full price admission, they must wins hands down with the combined take at all of the cash tills, shop, cafeteria etc. My guess is that Elvington and Newark museums have been approached. Isn't there anywhere else??

stu k

[Alan Cantwell 1131]

If you had been at the last one of these events, as i was all the public wanted to know was where could they see these large models fly, lots showed interest in Cosford and Elvington, lots of modelors of all denominations were present, a lot of them did not even know the size of the models on the BMFA stand, let alone what we threw at them, when we fired up engines, be it jet or prop, there was a noticable rush toward our enclosure, what i am getting at here, is there were great numbers there, but not neccasarily flyers, but the message was there for them, the aircraft public know what we can do, the general public do not, it can do the association nothing but good, plus, i dont think it cost anything, and i think we even got a donation !!! while i agree with the comments about the cost of the stand, its a high value venue, and the event costs a few bob to stage, but without trade stands, the flying public wont attend, sounds like a Catch 22 situation, doesnt it? believe me, if you apreciate models of all types, there is loads to see

[Phil Clark]

Having been to the M/E Exhibition in London on a few occasions, I do agree that these events are very interesting and probably worth a day out. However, given the broad range of interest of the visiting public, plus those who are not involved in any form of 'model' related hobby & are just there for a look about, the benefits of specialist aircraft traders being there I see as limited, especially considering the high cost of attenting in a trading capacity. For the larger companies, they may be able to cope with the costs and afford to cover them if they have a poor weekends trading & use it more of a PR excercise........smaller companies cannot, so trade attendance will surely be well down as LMA events generally bring out a good number of small businesses like myself.

I see the benefits of a 'demonstration' area for the LMA to show itself off as good......this can only increase attendance at the shows, so I think this is what the Manchester event should be used for.

I agree 100% with Stuart's comments above that a Bradford replacement is needed as a season opener. I personally never liked the Bradford venue, it was a bit grotty and a real pain to get to......maybe that alone was the cause of the poor gate figures. Gaydon is great with other things for visitors to look at other than the models & trade stands......but Haige Hall survived for years without the extra attractions, Wigan a few more after that, so I don't see them as vital to make an event successful. Elvington would be good but having spoken to DJ about it, I'm aware there are issues there. A similar type of sports complex venue with a big hall & plenty of parking would get my vote......there are several up here in the North East that might be worth a look (even some secondary schools or F/E college....some have HUGE sports halls these days), but I think that's too far north for most to travel......a more central location is needed.

Phil

[Denis Brown]

I have attended a few post card and ephemera events at Donington Park, adjacent to the race track Just off the M1. Large halls and massive car parks. Cant get much more central. Always well attended and costs must have been reasonable for a small organisation to have organised them.

[paul hughes]

A few years ago when the seminar moved from Wigan to Bradford, I offered the use of the school where I work. It has a large Hall, a sports hall and a large gym plus loads of classrooms, outside is a large field and loads of car parking in the yards. When i spoke to the head about cost, I was told just cover the cost of the caretaking and cleaning (£200-£300) The school is in Bury near Manchester which i think is quite central and has good transport links, the only downside was the canteen would be closed. If there is enough interest i can ask if we can have the use, maybe ever for a weekend and have a fly-in as well ?

[Cary Bailey]

I have attended a few post card and ephemera events at Donington Park, adjacent to the race track Just off the M1. Large halls and massive car parks. Cant get much more central. Always well attended and costs must have been reasonable for a small organisation to have organised them.

+1 for Donington as you have the race car museum as an added attraction
Cary

[DAVE JOHNSON]

Thanks all for the good sensible discussion ----i agree with all the comments ---As Phil said,both Elvington and Newark were visited ,but for several reasons were not suitable.Donington in my mind is too far south,its in the Midlands area and too near Gaydon,if we are going to run a Northern event it needs to be in the North----Pauls offer sounds tempting,How far off the motorway network is it Paul? and would any of the traders looking on here support it??
What we really need is another Gaydon type venue north of Manchester,but as yet we havnt found one.As a matter of interest,Haig Hall where we used for many years,are now looking for business again---they turned us away several years back because of car parking ssues etc,but obviously money situations have changed and they must be desperate for business---but i think we have moved on from that type of event now with the super venue ay Gaydon setting the standard----keep the offers coming,we may get there yet !!!!!

[paul hughes]

Dave, The school is in the town cantre, about a mile off the M66. There is also a transport museum in Bury but i have to confess i have not visited and don't know how big it is.

[Peter Siggins]

Some years ago - before Gaydon was up & running I approached Donington Park re having a static exhibition there.The management at Donington was a different organisation than the present owners but the hall offered had all the facilities ,including separate rooms for meetings (if necessary) plus a small kitchen facility.The price for a week-end hire was then not exhorbitant considering the acres of tarmac for parking,and the access through two large double doors would make easy entrance for models & traders.Public access through a separate door with a desk for any charges was in place.I also negotiated,subject to confirmation, a discount for entrance to the racing car museum,which is well worth a visit.

In the locality there are many B&B s and hotels less than a mile from the venue ( East Midlands Airport approx 1 mile away).Road access from the M42 is 2 miles away and the M1 is about 4 miles .

An ideal venue and as I live in Donington all the information was available - I informed the LMA re costs at the time but nobody on the committee thought it worth pursuing,the idea being,I think that a venue further north was more interesting.

Just my twopennorth,

Pete Siggins

[Phil Clark]

Donington sounds spot on (the museum is excellent as well)................and looking at the number of 'northeners' who travel all the way down to Gaydon, I personally don't think a truly nothern venue is needed. Where does the majority of the membership live?.....I'm pretty sure I'm correct in saying it's not in & around Manchester or further north than that. The Wigan/Southport/Bradford events have never been particularly well attended, mainly I assume as they were too far north for the sothern contingent, so....why not move a bit further south.

Donington is 60+ miles north of Gaydon.....not a massive distance I agree, but if Gaydon has been well attended, why not look at an equally suitable venue that's equally as easy (if not easier) to get to. You can't get more central for everybody than Donington, and from what Pete says, the facility sounds good.......so well worth looking into a bit further if you ask me.

Phil

[Stuart Solomon]

Sorry chaps but Donnington 'aint the North. Somewhere along the line of the M62, a few miles either north or south of it. Does anyone know of anywhere around the Leeds/Sheffield areas that might be suitable ??????? Solly

[Cary Bailey]

I agree with Pete & Phil that Donington would be ideal as it is central to most folk. Going "North" will mean the Southern fraternity will have to travel even further & probably will not attend! On the flip side the Southern fraternity will probably want a "Southern" meeting to balance things out!
Cary

[andrew exton]

Sorry chaps but Donnington 'aint the North. Somewhere along the line of the M62, a few miles either north or south of it. Does anyone know of anywhere around the Leeds/Sheffield areas that might be suitable ??????? Solly

pitty you couldnt share the hanger with XH558 at finningly/donacaster or what ever you wish to call it for the weekend
daft thought i know but its easy to get too

andy

[Denis Brown]

Would be interesting to see a map showing the location of Lma members and then working out a central point just for interests sake. E verywhere is miles from Lincolnshire anyway

Brussels are the wind of change

[DAVE BAILEY]

Den is right that would be the best way

[Cary Bailey]

Den is right that would be the best way

What an excellentsuggestion. I wonder if Gaydon turns out to be the most central!
Cary