Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

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David Whiteley
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Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby David Whiteley » January 20th, 2015, 9:03 pm

In the 'Tail End Charlie' section at the back of the Feb 2015 Aeromodeller Magazine is a section titled 'The Large Model Association - Aeromodelling's Premier League?' It describes LMA models as magnificent. But it starts with the paragraph:-

"I would like to contend that the LMA is doing as much harm to grass roots aeromodelling as the Premier League is doing to grass roots football - encouraging lads to watch and dream instead of getting stuck in and doing something. At least the ARTF importers are turning some dreamers into flyers."

The article contains a nice photo of the "Very Large Scale Lockheed Constellation at the LMA Show."

I do not wishing to touch topics about which I know or care nothing - football - but I can understand his point. Seeing the Vulcan, the VC10, the Comet, the DH Express, Bertie's Flea Duo, Dawn Patrol, etc. etc. etc. [Apologies to many others.] could discourage the ordinary lad or lass from thinking that they could possibly build and fly 'something like that'.

Should we care?

Could the LMA shows have the odd slot where ordinary club sports models and trainers fly with a suitable commentary. Or perhaps some tiny models might be flown in a marquee in order to give Joe Public a broader view of the hobby, and perhaps to encourage them in to it.

Any other ideas?

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Alan Bithrey » January 20th, 2015, 9:43 pm

Well I must admit I don't agree with that view and one might argue that ARTF's are the problem; providing instant gratification, bypassing the stages that develop the necessary skills and fundamental understanding of how aeroplanes are constructed and why they are constructed in a particular way that would enable the new modeller, should the fancy take them to progress on to larger aircraft. I'm guessing that perhaps the readership of Aeromodeller has fallen (despite the latest noble effort to keep it going) from its halcyon days (60's & 70's maybe?) and I would suggest that this is more a sign of a changing society, advances in technology, interests and a general lack of perseverance with creative hobbies.

When I were a lad a Soarer Baby, an Ajax or maybe even a Phantom Mite were available and achievable things with an aspiration for single channel R/C a bit of a dream. If my HK Vampire was available then, particularly at the astonishingly low price, I would have had just as much fun but learning how to fly it would have taught me nothing about building aeroplanes irrespective of their size.

So, perhaps the contention should be turned upside down and we should suggest that the ARTF scene together with the lack of local model shops (but that's another story) will stifle "real" aeromodelling which will starve the specialist groups such as the LMA of future young blood. All we can hope for is that model shows including Cosford, Gaydon etc inspire enough youngsters to actually try something creative and, with luck, some will take to it and stick with it and the skills and interests develop as ours have.

Alan

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby David Whiteley » January 20th, 2015, 10:10 pm

I must say that the spirit of the article is not that ARTF is good, but that showing only the Crown Jewels and not the ordinary suggests that watching is all you can possibly hope for. In fact it goes on to talk about some lovely models such as a tiny P39 Airacobra and a radio-assist Whitley bomber with scale retracts that I would contend are probably equally unachievable for the ordinary bloke(sse). But then it suggests that perhaps ARTF might at least encourage a few into flying and perhaps further into the hobby.

(Please remember that I am only the messenger.)

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby stuart knowles 1611 » January 20th, 2015, 11:10 pm

Its an interesting question to throw in the ring Dave and one to which there is no simple answer. As my Blacksmith said to me only the other day, 'The world is changing fast'

If ARTFs get people flying with the minimum of effort and delay, then I think that is a good thing, even if I also believe that ARTFs lack the deep satisfaction of owning and operating a working aeroplane that is your own work through and through (and is unique from all others)

In my 'umble opinion, the direction of the hobby is very much controlled by 'what the trade want to sell you' more than anything and anyone entering the game now would be hard pressed to know that trad building was even an option.

Anyone who attends at a model club will find the world of 'normal' models both well illustrated and in good health.

If 'The LMA' should do anything to influence up and coming modellers, then my suggestion would be to keep alive and prominent the idea that very acceptable large models can be successfully built from sawn up furniture, insulating foam, bits of bikes and other recycled junk, covered with dress fabric, card, brown paper, pond sealer, so on and so forth.

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby barrie burton » January 21st, 2015, 8:44 am

I think that to a certain extent,the Aeromodeller is correct,but to stick to a football analogy,less than 10% of our membership would be in the Premier league,the rest would be in the Championship.
The face of the LMA are the shows and the Web site.These generally involve the same people and models.How many show flyers are there,30 or 40.To suggest that this number of people can influence the whole hobby is wrong.The paying public want to see Mega models,1/3 rd scale warbirds (what a horrible word) and other wonderful creations,this is what they get.The web site depicts the same models,or others being built by professional model makers,wonderful examples of our art.They then exchange hands at Premier league prices.
I think that our face to the world only depicts the the best in size,quality and hence cost.This is giving an unbalance view of our association.
In our club we have 5 LMA members who fly about a dozen large models,but only one could be called very large.
As I asked in a post about a year ago,what are the other 90% of our members doing? without that knowledge the image of the LMA will be distorted.

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » January 21st, 2015, 10:01 am

The LMA is about large models- we used to put that at over 7kg - and not the 'megamodels' that are represented (rightly) at the big LMA shows. There are a thousand of us here, and not all want, or can afford, huge models. I would also say that there are plenty of shows out there which cater for the smaller models, Weston Park being the biggest, as well as the Nats. Dont dilute the LMA shows by trying to compete with the foamies, 3D helis etc of the other shows. A 1/4 scale Pup is as big a draw as a large B17 because the average modeller can aspire to that. Keep the formula as it is, even the LMA trainer is represented at shows.

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » January 21st, 2015, 6:25 pm

Well, i own several large models, all can be flown at most non- LMA clubs, all are over 7 kg, I go to lma shows to be entertained, i go to the nats to be entertained, and i go to weston par, to be entertained, this is the purpose of shows, A friend of mines son races cars, not r/c, at a very low level, yet he is an avid follower of F1, he aspires to get to that level, There must ne several other examples like this, as for the ARTF thing, well, bring it on, the advent of them has brought many into the ranks, i played tennis, i dindt have to make the racket, did i?

And another thing, i keep seeing the no youngsters coming into the hobby, well,so what? I have always thought we should look in another direction, this being the older generation, house paid off, kids left home, looking for something to do, made models as a kid, got a good disposable income, THEY are the ones we should be casting lines to, the younger end are ok, but a lot of them lose it quickly,

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby MalcolmDouglasPorter » January 22nd, 2015, 11:57 am

I joined the LMA about six months ago as it occurred to me that I need a hobby to keep me going. I don’t wish to bore the pants off of you, but from 2006 to 2008 I underwent chemotherapy and RT with many other things being done to me to beat lung cancer and metastatic carcinoma in my bones, not easy to deal with and very unpleasant! Since May 2008, when the treatment finished, my life had been very difficult, dealing with the effects of the treatment, the cancer, by then, being the least of the problems. It is only in the last 18 months or so that I have been able to get my head round things reasonably well, and it occurred to me that I should revive my boyhood hobby of model aeroplanes and started to think about what I would like to do. To cut a long story short, I started out by considering a large Spitfire kit (you probably know the one I am talking about?), building it as a MkV and painting it in the colours of 129 Sqn (DV-G perhaps). I had been a member of 129 ATC before joining up in 1961. The potential cost of this project had an effect on my decision not to go there and so looked at ideas based on my life’s experiences, and the thought of the Beverley loomed large (no pun intended). I had flown as PAX in these when serving in the Middle East in the mid 60’s (84 Sqn) and had many dealings with them loading and unloading cargoes. So that was it, the idea of a large scale Beverley was firmly set in my head and set about looking for info to make some drawings. Somewhere during the process of producing the drawings, I joined the LMA, not really knowing what I was doing and feeling a bit sheepish having seen the standard of models at East Kirkby when visiting JJ.

The concept for the Beverley was to be my own design. I was aware of the other excellent efforts previously made, but clearly had my own ideas of how it should be done, and as cheaply as possible. I am 69 years old in early February, and as you would expect, have no mortgage etc to worry about, but I do not have a fabulous disposable income, so need to be careful regarding spending the money and this is the reason why I have chosen to do my own design and scratch building this model. The whole thing is based on a limited understanding of aerodynamics that I gleaned during my 15 years in the RAF, and my knowledge of model making from boyhood and early manhood, plus what I could learn as I go on. Since my previous forays into this hobby, ideas, technology and materials have raced past me, so this alone has given me lots to do, simply catching up! I do have a very comprehensive collection of hand tools that I have used for many projects over the years (not model making).

None of this is about being in any particular “league”, or seeking glorification, it is about doing something fulfilling in my retirement, but I have to say that I am amazed at the general interest this project has gained from my posts in the forum. I really must thank those of you who have taken the time to comment, and some who have given me advice about various things, all very welcome. Most importantly, the encouragement to carry on with a project that I honestly thought no one would care for very much.

So for me, the LMA is about mixing with like minded people and sharing the enjoyment of making and flying large model aeroplanes, either out of a box or out of someone’s head. Some people like making small models?

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Dave Hayfield » January 23rd, 2015, 12:57 am

A couple of years ago whilst attending a few fly-ins for mainly large models but not exclusively, I took along with me a Shoestring and a Phantom Mite control line model. I think there was more interest in the control line flying with the modellers than anything else, people were lining up asking for 'a go' and reveling in nostalgia, the smell of diesel fuel etc. from when they were lads. I know of several youngsters who have bought park flyers and the like but they just will not persevere with trying to master the flying of them. Instant gratification is the real problem and if they can't press a button to put everything right again they lose interest. It is interesting to see on the model flying display circuit and in quite a few clubs that most of the youngsters (and not so young now) are part of father and son teams. I never actually encouraged my son into modelling but because of my interest and the presence of models he became totally enthralled. This may have influenced his career because he is a qualified aircraft engineer travelling the world doing what he likes best. In fact as I write this he is in South America fixing Honeywell turbines.
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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » January 23rd, 2015, 2:39 pm

Interesting Dave, my lad is similar, But does yours still fly, and if not, when did he stop? Just out of interest

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Dave Hayfield » January 24th, 2015, 1:16 am

Hi Alan, yes he certainly does and then some! He is the LMA member who flys the huge 7/8th scale Pitts Python. I keep telling him his models are too big, transport is not easy and putting together a model that weighs 138Kg for a couple of flights per day is a nightmare but he says 'if you've got to do it,you've got to do it'. Hopefully this is out of his system now and it is the last of his nearly full size builds, he says it is but I'm not so sure because he keeps looking at pics of Stearman. I suppose when you are working on passenger jets even large models are small in comparison.
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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » January 24th, 2015, 11:26 pm

Glad he is still in the game, sadly, my lad, ex uk champion, is not one bit interested, he was too good, too soon, hey hum

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Dave Hayfield » January 25th, 2015, 12:55 am

Pity about that Alan especially with his expertise, still you can't live their lives for them. I bet he comes back to the hobby later on as many people do. I think if it is in your blood somewhere you never lose the fascination.
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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Wayne Cox » February 10th, 2015, 1:09 pm

I have read this thread and can see both sides, I have taken the plunge and started a build thread back in Oct 2014 I have been commentating and placing photos of its progress.

To date I have had one member take the time to comment on it since Oct 2014. No comments of advice or encouragement through its build.
I have said to myself, is it because my name is nothing or its something that is not welcome or wanted.

I have the thread on a US Forum as another member from it across the water is building the same model, with encouragement and advice from site members.
I will leave it there

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » February 10th, 2015, 6:55 pm

Post deleted, seems i was on the wrong track, hope you carry on with your build Wayne, its coming along nicely,
Last edited by Alan Cantwell 1131 on February 10th, 2015, 11:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » February 10th, 2015, 7:43 pm

Not everyone wishes to comment, a 'looking good' or a +1 is sometimes just clogging up what is an interesting thread. I seem to remember a certain photographer asking if anyone was actually interested in his (stunning) pictures, as nobody commented on them. Sometimes it is simply superfluous. I personally look at ALL build threads, all of us can learn from others. As for Aeromodeller, they should really know better, any prospective flyer picking their magazine up will think its all about 1950s control line, vintage free flight or indoor foamies. Somebody needs to get a life.....

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Wayne Cox » February 10th, 2015, 9:08 pm

Alan please read my post, I made no ref to views
As a first timer on creating a build thread on the LMA web site and from building from plan it is worth an expert eye on what your doing and even some suggestions is very welcome

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » February 10th, 2015, 9:13 pm

If you were doing something wrong then I'm sure you will be corrected by someone! It can only mean we find the thread interesting and even better, you are doing it right! lol

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Wayne Cox » February 10th, 2015, 10:05 pm

Hi Bob
I yield to your kind and expect words ;)

Regards

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Re: Feb 2015 Aeromodeller mentions the LMA - but ...

Postby Dave Parry » February 11th, 2015, 6:32 am

Hi Wayne, don't be discouraged by the lake of comments on this forum, members here only seem to comment when they feel they need to give you some input.

Your build is looking great and a fantastic achievement if it is your first one. you only have to look at the number of views it has had to give you an idea of how many are following it.

You also have to remember the LMA are only a 1000 members strong and not all use computers other forums have thousands of members so you are bound to get a better response.

Keep up the good work, you can't be doing anything wrong otherwise you would have had a comment about that I can assure you.


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