An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

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Frank Skilbeck
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Frank Skilbeck » November 29th, 2019, 10:59 pm

I'm really confused now, so we will register as an operator with either the LMA, BMFA etc but we don't need any pilot competency to do this, but we do for a flyer ID, is that correct?
If I register through the LMA will I get Operator and Flyer IDs from the CAA? or just an Operator ID? and then if Mr Plod comes along I show him this and the LMA/BMFA proficiency or do I need to get a Flyer ID from the CAA?
If it's the former can I get my Operator ID via the LMA and then use my BMFA A/B cert as proof of competency?

BTW I did the LMA online test got a return email within seconds, but a club mate completes the test but doesn't receive an e-mail, are there some gremlins in the system?

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Rob Buckley
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Rob Buckley » November 30th, 2019, 8:40 am

If you go on the CAA website, register as an operator and pass the pilot competency test you will get an operator ID and a flyer ID. You don't need an operator ID to get a flyer ID and you don't need a flyer ID to get an operator ID.

A CAA flyer ID just shows that you have passed the CAA competency test.

You do not need a flyer ID if you have CAA exemption 1331 here hold one of the certificates that it lists and are a current member of the association that gave you that certificate.

If you register as an operator through the LMA or another association, you will get a CAA operator ID directly from the CAA in early February. You will not get a flyer ID, and you don't need one or any other certificate to request operator registration.

CAA permission 1332 here means you don't have to be registered as an operator as long as you are a member of one of the listed associations, and will need to have requested registration before 31 January 2020.

If nabbed by the fuzz, just show them the CAA exemptions and your membership card and you're all covered.

There was an issue with the LMA online test last weekend, but should be all working now.
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John Greenfield
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby John Greenfield » November 30th, 2019, 9:05 am

Interesting point guys.

Exemption 1331 states in para 3 that you must carry a copy of the exemption along with proof of competency.

"A copy of this exemption, along with a copy of the relevant documents (membership and award certificate)referred to in paragraph 2 above must be carried by the remote pilot when making use of this exemption"

Make sure you print off a copy and carry it with your membership card !!!

John

Bob Thompson1894
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » November 30th, 2019, 9:18 am

I have for some years, carried my BMFA, LMA and club cards in my Tx case. Seems logical. I can add my B and LMA prof to the wad- it will help insulate the transmitter!

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Rob Buckley
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Rob Buckley » November 30th, 2019, 9:42 am

You don't need the actual certificates if it says on your association membership card/document what qualifications / certificates you have.
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » November 30th, 2019, 12:02 pm

or you can have them on your phone as a .pdf

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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby John Greenfield » December 3rd, 2019, 4:13 pm

Rob Buckley wrote:You don't need the actual certificates if it says on your association membership card/document what qualifications / certificates you have.


Yes Rob, but it does say you need to carry a copy of the 1331 Exemption !
J

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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » December 3rd, 2019, 6:58 pm

We will be needing a log book bigger than Captain Kirks before long...

chris-berry
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby chris-berry » December 4th, 2019, 7:25 pm

We've got copies of exemptions in our club hut. Alternatively you could keep copies in the car.

It'll only be an issue on public sites. The plod are not able to keep up with county lines drugs gangs, cash machine thefts and car thefts, so a few old boys flying toy spitfires (as everything is a spitfire) is the least of their problems.

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Rob Buckley
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Rob Buckley » December 5th, 2019, 5:00 pm

It's 2 sheets of paper from the caa to stick in the bottom of your tx box on the off chance the feds turn up.
That and your membership doc is all you need.
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » December 5th, 2019, 6:49 pm

Any ideas on the stick numbers on the plane bit yet?

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Rob Buckley
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Rob Buckley » December 5th, 2019, 7:23 pm

Nothing's changed since the last email I sent to everyone a couple of weeks ago-

Aircraft Marking - For Everyone

As an operator, you will have to mark all of your in-scope aircraft-
- On the fuselage (or main body)
- In clear block capital letters at least 3mm high
- Visible from the outside or inside an access door that can be opened without any tools
- Secure and safe from damage
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Steve Perry
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Steve Perry » December 5th, 2019, 9:05 pm

In ink that has run due to a slight splash of fuel :)

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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Alan Cantwell 1131 » December 6th, 2019, 8:00 am

That’s what I mean, if you sell the airframe, you want to be able to remove the number, so can we not devise an adhesive pouch, that a number can be slid into, think of all the airframes you have guys, do you want to go writing all over them? Really?

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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Bob Thompson1894 » December 6th, 2019, 8:49 am

With all the obviously illegal number plates I see around and nobody gets done for, is plod going to go around looking at models with a magnifying glass? And how do you check if a number is correct? Pointless. Incidentally, the BMFA is giving a copy of the exemption with their mag. Saves you printing it.

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Rob Buckley
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Rob Buckley » December 6th, 2019, 9:35 am

The exemptions will be in the next LMA journal, to cut out & keep. Will be with you before Christmas.
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Ian Stromberg
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Ian Stromberg » December 9th, 2019, 12:34 pm

Pilot A and Pilot B are both registered operators. Pilot A asks Pilot B to test fly his model. The model crashes and causes third party damage. Any insurance claim would be made against Pilot B as he was flying the model. If the location and nature of the crash indicate that the law has been broken and the CAA decide to prosecute, who will be prosecuted? The pilot (Pilot B) or the registered operator (Pilot A) or both?

Steve Mansell
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Steve Mansell » December 9th, 2019, 6:17 pm

As I understand it, pilot a would be prosecuted for allowing the flight, and pilot b for carrying out the flight. It may be that both are charged with one offence as "joint enterprise". If the video of the illegal flight was posted on YouTube, and the FTC thought it might appeal to children, then both pilots could be extradited to the USA for breaching Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).
Have fun,
Steve :shock:

Steve Mansell
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Steve Mansell » December 9th, 2019, 6:19 pm

:D :D The above is all tongue in cheek.

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Rob Buckley
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Re: An Update on the UK Regulations for Model Flyers

Postby Rob Buckley » December 9th, 2019, 8:27 pm

Ian Stromberg wrote:Pilot A and Pilot B are both registered operators. Pilot A asks Pilot B to test fly his model. The model crashes and causes third party damage. Any insurance claim would be made against Pilot B as he was flying the model. If the location and nature of the crash indicate that the law has been broken and the CAA decide to prosecute, who will be prosecuted? The pilot (Pilot B) or the registered operator (Pilot A) or both?


They may well both be registered as operators, but do either of them have remote pilot competency?

When a small unmanned aircraft flies, both the operator and the remote pilot of that aircraft have responsibility in the ANO, so may well be in for a good hard prosecuting.
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