Large Model Association Forum

Hi all,

I'm embarking on the build of the word famous and much loved MEISTER P-47 Razorback.....!

I'm a bit new to offering myself and my building up to the wider world for scrutiny
"So please be nice"

My aim is to share the problems and hopefully some solutions that I encounter as I move through the build and also gain support and advice from "YOU....!"

"OK So what have we got to go with...?


1 x Laser cut kit from Leon at Belair (And may I say what a beautifully cut kit "Thank You Leon" )

1 x New P-47 Scale Resin Cowl Intake

1 x Pair Sierra Precision 1/4.5 Scale P-47 Retract w/out Shrink Bar

1 x Sierra Retractable Tail Wheel Assembly

1 x 3-Inch Sierra Tail Wheel and Tire

1 x Pair of 6" Sierra Wheels

1 x 1/5 SCALE READY MADE P-47 COCKPIT

1 x Pair of P-47 WING PYLONS AND RUBBER SEALS

1 x Upgrade Fiberglass Tank/Bomb Release and Oil Dump Parts

1 x Scale Detail Resin Accessory Package Including the wingtip lens covers

1 x 9" Diameter Resin Dummy Engine

1 x P-47 110L Belly Tank

2 x 500Lb Bombs "from Fighter Aces" Really cool bits of kit

2 x Robart 157VRX Large Deluxe Air Control Kit Large Air

4 x Robart 3/8" X 1" Stroke Air Cylinders

1 x Firgelli L16R 140mm, 63:1 Linier Actuator for the Sliding Canopy

1 x Power Box Cockpit (DSM2)

7 x Hitec HS-5565MH High Speed (HV) Digital Coreless Servo (14Kg @ 0.09 on 7.4v)

8 x Hitec HS430BH High Voltage (HV) Analog Standard Servo (5Kg @ 0.14 on 7.4v)

1 x Full Set of details for fuselage, both wing side's and tail plus all Rivets rivets and dummy screws for detailing. The sets are from my friend Mirce in Serbia (totally recommend check out his site, Thanks Mirce )

1 x Brain Cube lighting set, including Landing light, Red Amber, Green Formation lights, Tail light and obligatory Tail Light. (If you haven't seen these LEDs where have you been "They are blindingly Awesome) "Oliver thanks for your guidance and assistance "

1 x 1/4 Scale WWII US Premier Pilot, with additional Hand Made Scale Parachute Customised by Wendy at Perfect Pilots (What a difference it makes, thank you Wendy)

And to power all of this we have one of Iain Nicole Specials;

1 x ZDZ 112cc RV-J Inline Twin, Special Order, "Thanks Iain, done me proud again


So as you can see we have all the kit, I'm sure there is a saying to go with that.....?

"I SAID BE NICE"

Work on the project started October 2014 and is predicted to be finished by the end of this year or early next 2016 "but time will tell...?"

So for now hello and welcome to my Build, I will upload some build pictures later on today, but for now thanks for looking....

Dean



Oh, by the way this is the idiot doing the build........ :|




















Well its a start....

Ill keep fighting to cut and re size the pictures only 60 more

Cool stuff, I'm looking forward to this

Matt

Here we go, Lets get sticking


Balsa, Bass laminate to form the crotch as the plan goes all balsa not enough strength for me and no more weight than hard balsa









As you can see the crotch is now in place, pined and glued.

the other thing that had to be made prior to building was the Jig to build from.....
the time spent building this will pay off later on in the build,

Bench levelled, Jigs Laser levelled, insert formers and build

So far, So good

As you can see from the picture bellow I chose to trim out the excess weight from the fuselage formers as I believe a lot of you do this too, it didn't amount to a great deal in terms of grams, but as I discover later I have to fit the elevator servos in to the tail plane it all begins to add up...

As you can see below I wasn't immediately a wear that there was a glass spine that could/should be purchased.......

Using my Ziroli plan I began to scale those up by 5mm each side (approx.)

using a ruler and laser I then scaled them for height, surprisingly it worked out perfect in all aspects and in all areas including the diagonal Meister part that sit in line with the cockpit



Perfect alignment as you can see by using the Laser even the tail wheel, its easier than string and even at 6"2 my arms are not that long..



As you will see bellow the ledges/plates have been installed to accept the Air Cylinders that will open the rear tail wheel doors.

Again with more thought what I should have done is to fit this direct to crotch instead of attaching to the light ply plates/fillets this would have been easier "AND" I could have increased the support and strength....

Again this is why I am doing this build thread to share my ups and downs..!

Ok more of these over sized pictures.......

I will come back and put in some words between all these photos I promise


You will see from the photos that as the Sierra tail wheel is not catered for on the Meister plan you have to do a bit of maths yourself......

the short answer to this one seems to be that when you fit the rear support on the tail wheel plate it needs to sit in line with the top of the spar on either side of the fuselage have a look at the pictures its a bit simpler to get your head around. The other side can be aligned accordingly.

I also chose to route the gear plate through two purpose made holes without any slop which in turn builds in added strength





Large amounts of the former had to be removed in order for the tail wheel to withdraw fully, slightly worrying but it works and there is still sufficient ply and balsa to give strength



A plate was created to support the tank while in situe.

Again I haven't allowed for the second tank (Smoke) so this will have to be dealt with at some point soon.

Tank size is 1200 DUBRO, I think its a bit on the big side but I wasn't sure with using the ZDZ 112cc. My day to day flyers are 60/80cc ZDZs even when fitted to 100cc Airframes

"Any suggestions greatly accepted"

Nice one, keep going.
I have built a couple of the meister corsair. So easy to build.
The last one I took a week of work and built an airframe ready for covering.
Bonzey

Hi Dean,

Well this is handy! I've just picked up a part started Meister P47! I also looked at using the Ziroli plan to make the razorback section, it worked for you so will do the same, I'm not able to get on with mine just yet, so will be watching you finding all the problems! I've also read Mirce's build on RCU.

Keep up the good work,
Dave.

Ken Bones wrote:Nice one, keep going.
I have built a couple of the meister corsair. So easy to build.
The last one I took a week of work and built an airframe ready for covering.
Bonzey

Hi Ken,

That sounds awesome, Iv spent the last 12-18 months just collecting the bits I'm not sure that my thought proses would work that fast.....

To add insult to injury iv got a wife and two young kids, I'm lucky if I get a hand full of hours each week....

Ill keep in mind your projects my next one was to be a Corsair...

Did you find any inaccuracies' with the kit...
E.g. ribs too big/small or misalignment of spars..?
Let me know as iv spotted a few

Thanks

Dean

Dave Jones wrote:Hi Dean,

Well this is handy! I've just picked up a part started Meister P47! I also looked at using the Ziroli plan to make the razorback section, it worked for you so will do the same, I'm not able to get on with mine just yet, so will be watching you finding all the problems! I've also read Mirce's build on RCU.

Keep up the good work,
Dave.

Hi Dave,

Good to see that the love is out there,

I'm trying to get some one like Leon from Belair or Paul Dudley to put the additional Razorback formers through a cad system to perfectly align and cut them, they could then put them out there for general consumption/Sale (No joy as yet, I will see Paul early next month...!)

If you get stuck let me know and ill forward you a copy of the set

Good luck, you will have to put some pictures out there..

Dean

Hi all,

So I didn't get to put all 60 pictures on there last night but I will try again when I get home later.

I do need your help though

I took the decision to fit an inline twin as I believe the weight of this build to exceed the 20Kg rule, ok no worries (Registered the build) "BUT" Meister's Cowl is 10mm too narrow to take a conventional twin.. and I don't believe in "LEAD" What a waste of power...

Dead weight in my opinion is a cardinal sin, God gave you thumbs "Use them...!"

Iv seen others use 80/90cc Singles and say that they fly but then wish that the had increased the cc on the front.

At my best calculation my ZDZ Twin weighs 7.5Lb which then equates to an Evolution 80 with 1.5Lb of lead to achieve the correct balance point.

So that was my rational..

So, BUY A MOKI 180cc you say..? £2400

I put the money aside got to £1400 and bought a twin. I plan to have the exhaust outlets as scale and to exit from the fuselage side.

I have a number of options,

A single can as I have alternate firing on the cylinders

OR

Fit two smaller singles, however space and cooling being the issue here.

Has anyone done this previously and or has experience of this....?

Can anyone recommend a builder for cans and headers other than the likes of Krumscheid which I have to say are truly awesome I have a number of them, but they cost.... I'm also looking for that authentic sound too....

"YES I HERE YOU, SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT A MOKI..."

A friend of mine went to Western UK for a wrap around on his ZDZ 40cc its better than a JMB at £90 but not £200 worth of satisfaction... Sorry

CAN YOU HELP....?

Dean

My second question is;

I want to have operational Exhaust Louver Doors on the Fuselage,

Yer easy right..?

NO....

Have a look some time at how the full size door opens and you will discover that it slides back 50% before opening out wards (A bit like a Fowler Flap)

So again any suggestions please....

I'm currently experimenting with this and that but in the interests of weight "Especially in the tail end" and Cost.

The other factor is the amount of travel on a Servo/Actuator/Air Cylinder to make this work affectively. the door is 90mm/9cm long so you require a minimum of 70mm/7cm of travel to make this look right.

Robart do an Air Cylinder which I have but factor in air leaks and serviceability "I'm not sure"
Firgelli do an Actuator "awesome.." £90 inc p&p
Standard Servo, you would need an arm so long it may not be practical...? But it is the most cost affective if practicable...!

Also the slide path that this must follow to look scale is the other big thing.

Back at ya, Can you help please.....?


Manny thanks


Dean

My advice would be to be careful about adding too much operational detail at the expense of extra weight. Nothing kills a successful flying model more than if it gets too heavy to enjoy. Operating intercooler slats would be great for bar-stool detail, but you would be hard pushed to notice in flight (I dont think the fullsize operated unless at flying speed/temperatures) . . Keep it light and enjoy

By the way, I had a Meister P47 fitted with a 120 3W inline . . A great choice- and so smooth with alternate firing strokes . . Design a good silencer for maximum performance

Hi Dean,
Nice to see a Meister P47 build. My one came in at 19.5Kg and it flies well with a Zenoah 80 up front, i did have to add 1Kg of lead shot in the cowl ring to get the C/G correct.
I used a standard robart tail retract with a Sullivan snake to operate it and stuck the servo up the front end.
This was my first "large warbird" so i only built as fun scale ie no rivet detail or panel lines etc.

Sean.

Glenn Masters wrote:My advice would be to be careful about adding too much operational detail at the expense of extra weight. Nothing kills a successful flying model more than if it gets too heavy to enjoy. Operating intercooler slats would be great for bar-stool detail, but you would be hard pushed to notice in flight (I dont think the fullsize operated unless at flying speed/temperatures) . . Keep it light and enjoy

By the way, I had a Meister P47 fitted with a 120 3W inline . . A great choice- and so smooth with alternate firing strokes . . Design a good silencer for maximum performance

Hi Glenn,

thank for the feed back, you have an extremely good point with detail and clearly you have studied the operation of the doors too as they were only operational in flight/Turbo Operation.
I think some times it can be doing thing for doings sake (Because I can syndrome..)

Are you prepared to shed any more light on your silencer set up for your 3W Twin...
PLEASE!!!

Unlike a boxer twin engine, an inline positively benifits from a 2 into 1 manifold as the alternating firing stroke allows a burnt exhaust charge to exit and be replaced as each cylinder fires 1 after the other. I found that a header of about 25mm is needed with each cylinder header the same length from the head to the join point. I successfully used 2 standard size camping gaz cylinders silver soldered end to end for a silencer, fitted in the chin area between F1 and F2. Each gaz cylinder should have 6 x15mm holes bored into the concave base and then soldered *mismatched* together for an effective baffle. The trick is to let the inlet pipe pass right through the first can and into the second, the gasses then passing back through the baffle and through the 15 mm outlets each side of the first can. Let a 15mm pipe (pre-drilled with an array of 10mm holes) pass right across the 1st can (just under the inlet pipe)and silver solder in place. The exits should be pretty close the the waste gate dump exits as per the fullsize. Best of all, this set up sounds like sweet music . . . I love inline twins !! ps. dont forget to add plenty of mounting supports - not enough and you'll get fractured joints etc

From memory the plan for the corsair was pretty good. It was about 12 years ago!
That model was sold on and is now on about its 4th owner who has given it a complete refurb.
Bonzey.

Dean Mosley wrote:

Dave Jones wrote:Hi Dean,

Well this is handy! I've just picked up a part started Meister P47! I also looked at using the Ziroli plan to make the razorback section, it worked for you so will do the same, I'm not able to get on with mine just yet, so will be watching you finding all the problems! I've also read Mirce's build on RCU.

Keep up the good work,
Dave.

Hi Dave,



Good to see that the love is out there,

I'm trying to get some one like Leon from Belair or Paul Dudley to put the additional Razorback formers through a cad system to perfectly align and cut them, they could then put them out there for general consumption/Sale (No joy as yet, I will see Paul early next month...!)

If you get stuck let me know and ill forward you a copy of the set

Good luck, you will have to put some pictures out there..

Dean

Hi Dean,

Il give you a shout when I can get back onto mine, mean time il watch your progress! Btw if you look on the Meister website there's loads of finished planes on there, and a lot of them come under 20kg, I also spoke to Dino and he says the wood and the glass fibre fuz versions can come out under 20kg, but must keep as much forward as possible, and keep the paint job light!

Dave.

Re:- exhaust systems for inline twins......I've made these two for customers for the 3W 110cc twin.....one in a Mike Booth 1/4 scale Spit & a 2nd for a CompARF P-51.

http://www.fighteraces.co.uk/portfolio/exhaust-to-fit-14-scale-spitfire/

http://www.fighteraces.co.uk/portfolio/comparf-p-51d-mustang-exhaust/

Phil (Fighteraces)

Phil Clark wrote:Re:- exhaust systems for inline twins......I've made these two for customers for the 3W 110cc twin.....one in a Mike Booth 1/4 scale Spit & a 2nd for a CompARF P-51.

http://www.fighteraces.co.uk/portfolio/exhaust-to-fit-14-scale-spitfire/

http://www.fighteraces.co.uk/portfolio/comparf-p-51d-mustang-exhaust/

Phil (Fighteraces)

Hi Phill,

This is exactly why I put myself out there for help like this, I will call you in the week for a chat..

Thank you.

P.s. I had put an accolade out for the Ordinance that you guys at Fighter Aces supply I.e. 500Lb Bomb at the start of this build but here you go some pictures of my finished ietms
















I hope that you approve

Dean

I hope you approve,

Many thanks,

Dean