FN5 turrets for Wellington

Why not share your information on your latest creation
Steve Mansell
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Steve Mansell » September 7th, 2018, 9:59 pm

A true master of detail! It's all the little things that bring it to life. The wear from handling the intercom connections is just right, and the intercom wiring reminds me of the VIR cables i used as an apprentice.

An inspiration to me to look at how i detail my next scale project.

Keep it coming,
Steve

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » September 13th, 2018, 6:14 pm

Thanks! I'm glad you're enjoying the thread. I have told my daughter that she 'got a mention in despatches' for her platting-work!


Today was spent in the workshop, sorting-out a large consignment of very small pieces that had arrived in the post. Mostly these were revised shapes of: the "baffles" (through which the guns protrude, to improve fit), the chordal brace stiffeners (to er..., improve "stiffness"! :lol: ) and the rest of the "detailing" parts, switches, widgets, thingummy-bobs and what-nots. I'd really pushed the limits of what's possible with 3d printing. A case In point is the covers for ammunition cans. The real ones are secured by spring-loaded pins, which engage in eyelets on the chordal-braces, with a detent position so that the pins can be locked in the "open" position to remove the cover. Hopefully, mine will do the same. Daft, but rather good fun to make.


The "basket" is a wire container for thermos-flasks. Around a dozen of these were scattered around the aircraft to ward off the intense cold. Also in pictures are the fire-extinguisher, link-collector. Should look rather good when painted-up.

I have a routine now for such parts. There are 4 cardboard boxes in the workshop: (1) "To be drilled/tapped", (2) "To be hand-painted", (3) "To be airbrushed" and (4) "Finished parts". Parts are initially sorted into boxes 1-3 as appropriate, then I deal with box #1, then #3 (some parts get airbrushed and then get additional painting by hand.
Attachments
LMAsep2.jpg
Piles of bits!
LMAsep2.jpg (66.61 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
LMAsep1.jpg
Switch, perforated brace, "hands off!" notice and rounds entering guns...
LMAsep1.jpg (36.47 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
LMAsep3.jpg
Ammunition covers, note tiny compression spring..
LMAsep3.jpg (47.83 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
LMAsep4.jpg
"wire-basket" for thermos..
LMAsep4.jpg (31.39 KiB) Viewed 2810 times
LMAsep5.jpg
extinguishers, bracket for same, lower ram cap, and link-collector..
LMAsep5.jpg (31.64 KiB) Viewed 2810 times

Dave Kellett
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Dave Kellett » September 21st, 2018, 10:09 am

I have been following this thread for some time now, and can only assume that this is the work of a genius.
If the build quality of these turrets are anything to go by, then the aircraft must be of museum quality.
I really look forward to seeing the finished article.

Congratulations Tim and good luck

Dave

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » September 22nd, 2018, 12:22 pm

Having finally mastered soldering, last week I fitted the pair of microswitches hidden within the alloy-coloured chordal braces, and fitted the unpainted components of the gun-cradle and axles, including the new baffles which fit rather better. I also commenced a youtube channel which I'll put videos on from time to time to document the project, both 'triumphs and disasters'. In this instance I it was the former, the switches being tripped by internal cams as the gun-cradle is rotated, resulting in power being interrupted to the electric ram that elevates and depresses the cradle. I was aiming for 5 degrees of rotation before they operated, but it came out at nearer 7, which gives a sensible margin of error.

The first - very short- film can be seen at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbg5F23KoaI

Glad you're enjoying the thread.

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » September 25th, 2018, 7:09 pm

I've now added a couple of longer films on youtube for anyone that's interested. Searching it on "FN5 turret" or the link above should get you in the right area. I've never used a video camera until last week, much less put anything on YouTube, so if they're a bit "agricultural" please bear with me!

Steve Mansell
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Steve Mansell » September 25th, 2018, 10:04 pm

Computer aided design, video editing, 3d printing, soldering, etc,etc. Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
Cheers,
Steve

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » September 26th, 2018, 6:28 pm

Woof! ;-)

It appears this doesn't extend to posting the correct link! Try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCAfdIibcjY&index=1&list=PLmZWZWkSb8_XoL3mt80m6t8T3xsuWayHz


for the 2 longer films.


Tim

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » October 13th, 2018, 2:34 pm

I've put up some more films at

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQslWREMy2zKgQW4ASDuh6Q

Recent progress has been painting lots of parts, sorting the now rather large pile of bags of "unfitted bits" into "structural" and "detail". (The latter will be fitted later). Although I tested the cams electrics independently, I must have fitted one at an incorrect angle, as only one currently works with the cradle attached, so I've got to pull it apart again to locate the problem. Urgh!


The cradle rotates with no perceptible play, however it's a little stiffer than I was hoping, although with repetitive movement and a liberal use of Vaseline as a lubricant it is freeing off nicely. It's rather satisfying to see the linkages which translate linear movement of the ram into rotational movement of the gun-cradle - not collide with anything when doing so!

Mike Booth
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Mike Booth » October 15th, 2018, 5:30 pm

Fantastic. Commercial standards.

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » October 20th, 2018, 8:17 am

Thanks! I've since added a new film since which I'll try to "embed" here. (later) Hmm no joy, how does one embed?


Guns now mounted, also the sighting bar, today I'm making the final linkage to control and adjust the movement of the sighting bar. The lathe-work for the ram is in hand, so won't be long now before that can be tested. After that comes installing the twin bearing races for traversing, and resolving all the wiring, which is currently a "rats-nest"! If someone who knows how, could they embed the video with "rats=nest" in the title in a reply here, if so I'd be obliged, doubly so If he or she could give a blow by blow account of how it is done!

(edit - additional)

I've made the two linkages now, which were built as per the original with capability to adjust the length, although this wasn't needed. Still looks nice and works correctly. Drilled out the first 3d printed ram cap (5.75mm D) to take the extending portion of the ram, made from 7.32" (5.55mm) OD alloy tube - lovely fit with the lightest smear of Vaseline! A deeply satisfying day today, finally seeing the gunsight move in concert with the guns. All I need to do now is get the electric ram to work and the traversing bearings fitted and working properly, and I can then relax a bit. These two aspects are the remaining "worrisome" elements, notwithstanding the eventual aircraft pranging on it's maiden!

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » November 12th, 2018, 12:48 am

Hi all,

I've had a busy day in the workshop today, bringing on the construction of
the forward-turret towards the build-state of the previously assembled
rear-turret. I've put up a couple of films recently to shew progress. I've
had some brilliant assistance from a chap in Norfolk who turned up some of
the internal parts of the electric ram on his lathe, but one part had to go
back for minor surgery. Anyway, getting very close now to being able to
build and test the 1st electric ram.


The redesign of the traversing ball races/fixed ring has been finalised,
(pic attached) and I hope to have those printed and fitted within the next
few weeks. So, whilst I'm waiting for parts to progress the rear-turret, I
turned to the forward turret, and now have a little "production line" going!
Staggering the assembly has been well worthwhile as the forward turret's
build is taking around a 1/10th of the time taken relative to the rear one!

The latest film is at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vafQT32nHQA

And the full menu of films can be found at:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQslWREMy2zKgQW4ASDuh6Q

Otherwise not too much progress as I've been busy redesigning the fixed ring and its bearings, and preparing the .stl files for the next trance of 3d printing. Still, I'm getting a real kick out of putting the front turret together - MUCH faster than the rear one!

MK V Fixed ring bearings 2.jpg
MK V Fixed ring bearings 2.jpg (158.96 KiB) Viewed 2231 times

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » November 29th, 2018, 11:33 pm

I've been a little stymied of late, with both the fixed-ring and rams still awaiting parts before further assembly. So instead I started adding "detail" parts, ie all the fragile bits and bobs that were slated to be added shortly before completion of the internal turret structure. Placard plates, (to which I'll add micro-printed authentic instructions), seat-adjusters, electrical switches (cosmetic) the plates for the ends of the chordal-braces, link-chutes and feed-chutes for ammunition and so forth.

I'm currently researching electrical connectors (very dull!) to try and find the best (smallest!) connectors to route wires from the 7 lamps per turret into the wiring looms to the rest of the aircraft. If any electronics specialists in the Oxfordshire area, I'd dearly love some help/advice with that! Also underway is further CAD on the cupola and getting the new fixed-ring made.


Recent progress on youtube at


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPhKGF9KSGk

181201c.jpg
port chute before fitting
181201c.jpg (43.18 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201b.jpg
stub-axle on reverse - well greased before fitting
181201b.jpg (46.49 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201a.jpg
.303 rounds in chute
181201a.jpg (37.79 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201f.jpg
gunners tool-pouch
181201f.jpg (51.22 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201e.jpg
placard, traversing lock, port tank and cover with operating clips, RT leads, also actuating rods from control handles now fitted
181201e.jpg (55.64 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201d.jpg
port chute fitted note troublesome perforations
181201d.jpg (53.87 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201i.jpg
181201i.jpg (69.67 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201h.jpg
newly made flexible hydraulic lines to fire gun - heathshrink tape over braided cable.Rams not yet fitted
181201h.jpg (68.34 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201g.jpg
link chute with tell-tale window
181201g.jpg (52.2 KiB) Viewed 2016 times

181201j.jpg
placard and switch (top right) and actuating rods - centre
181201j.jpg (56.66 KiB) Viewed 2016 times
Last edited by Timothy Huff on December 2nd, 2018, 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » December 1st, 2018, 6:27 pm

And the remaining stills.


I forgot to mention the news that I've had to, at least temporarily, abandon building the two large tubs in which the gunners legs sit, and which traversed with the rest of the turret. I had prepared complete sets of drawings for making these with 3d printing, but even using the "off-set" pricing, which can be applied to bowl-shaped objects, where the shape is expanded by 3mm in all directions, and the subsequent solid-volume is priced without the void-space, the cost for both turrets was unwarrantable. So I shall have to rethink that one. I've already tried costing it using plasticard for all simple curvatures, but it still came out too dear. I figure at this stage I'd like to get further ahead with the geodetics side of things before looking at that area again.
Attachments
181201m.jpg
view from front
181201m.jpg (52.45 KiB) Viewed 2015 times
181201l.jpg
link chute tell-tale window and fittings for locking Browning top-cover open,
181201l.jpg (37.57 KiB) Viewed 2015 times
181201k.jpg
Working clips (just!) for ammunition tank covers.
181201k.jpg (44.1 KiB) Viewed 2015 times
181201n.jpg
Thermos-flask and holder - may have to be found room elsewhere. I was interested to see how 3d printing would cope with 0.5mm diameter "wire" mesh.
181201n.jpg (40.84 KiB) Viewed 2015 times

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » December 11th, 2018, 3:56 am

For my sins I'm currently drawing up the hydraulic lines of the FN5, which after some trial and error, I've decided to make in mixed materials, ie some tubular brass, and some 3d-printed pipes, with any straight-sections being in the brass. Incorporating a male lug a little undersize to the internal diameter of the brass tube, on the 3d-printed "pipes" will assist in holding it all together

Once glued together and painted, this should provide a reasonable look to the plumbing without much expense or great difficulty. I started by making some "standard curvatures" (pink bits in lower right corner of picture) and gradually built-up the lines with these "standard parts", only constructing complex-curvatures where I had to. A great deal of reference to photographs is necessary to determine paths of various pipes, as a turret is never easy to photograph and the Byzantine routing means that no path can be worked out from any given picture.


The work-in-progress shot below is far from finished, and some paths I need to check by other means. Once all the pipes are routed, I'll break down the runs into 3d printed and brass components. As some runs have to be flexible, to take account of movement and changes in geometry consequent from that movement, some out-of-sight flexible joints or breaks will likely be necessary. When the routing is complete, I'll make some fittings to support pipework.

Incicentally, the flexible black pipe from the bottom of the rams is also the concealed escape-route for wiring from the elevation motor.

plumbing.jpg
oh the horror!
plumbing.jpg (51.15 KiB) Viewed 1886 times

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » January 24th, 2019, 5:32 pm

Hi chaps.

I havn't posted lately as I've been busy on the CAD side of things, finalising the drawings for the rear-turret cupola and supporting structure. This is primarily 3d printed members of 4mm square profile, clad with two or more shaped 0.45mm thick brass pieces and bolted through, to provide extra strength whilst not adding appreciable weight. The drawings for all the brass pieces will be made into .dxf files, then sent to Hodder and Grainge for acid-etching to the required shapes. Similarly the main front superstructure with the two slots for the guns and baffles, is likewise stiffened with sheet brass, as this will eventually take the strongest loads.

The design of the rear-turret cupola is finalised, and the doors improved to be closer-fitting, incorporating double articulating hinges to allow each door to move directly aftward before opening; and an working latch mechanism concealed largely within the 4mm thickness of the RH door. A further modification has been to add two concealed screws which can be operated to screw the doors shut, whilst allowing eventual access to the FPV cameras and the turret mechanism. Now similar work begins on the front-turret doors and aft section of the cupola, again to improve fit. As I started work on the rear-turret cupola before Christmas, this promises to be a long process, although I now know what's required, and it should be a bit quicker to draw-up the required parts.


In the meantime, I've now built the 2nd fixed-ring, with 72 x 3.1mm ID individual bearing-pockets for 3mm bearings on the upper surface, 72 fixing screws and the capping strip for same, and 24 6.2mm ID pockets and 6mm bearings on the lower surface, with a thicker capping strip and the peripheral brass inserts for the circumferential metal strap which will connect the fixed-ring to the airframe.

One of our number has most generously, and unexpectedly, offered to fabricate the two "turret-tubs" for which I'm very grateful indeed! I'd best check he's okay with being named, but my thanks anyway!


I'm still waiting for the final parts to be made for the rams, which connect the reduction gearbox of the motor to the lead-screw, so can't test that yet. So at the moment, there's quite a lot of useful progress, just not much visible! I attach some pictures. The nest of rear-turret parts, the nest of hydraulic lines for both turrets, and a close-up shot of a new wrinkle:


In preparing the drawings of the hydraulic lines, it became obvious that some needed to adjust for the changing geometry as the guns elevated and depressed. So I've made them solid, and 3d printed, and added a series of cut-outs to each so that the progressive bending required can be by these gaps closing. As the 3d-printed solid cable is going to have black heat-shrink tape over it, and the profile of the cut-out area also remains circular, I'm hopeful this will allow the cable to bend as required, where required, but still be controllably stiff where that's needed too. Bit of a punt, which'll be nice it works as planned.

To economise on printing costs, all straight lengths of hydraulic lines will be tubular brass, mostly 1/16th", glued to lugs on the ends of 3d printed parts, which had added to the time to draw, but made nesting them rather easier. Going to be a bit of a puzzle to reconstitute though!

New no films for a bit, but that's where I'm at currently...


nest1.jpg
Nest of parts for rear-turret doors. Note the large orange and brass coloured parts of the base of the cupola split as required to "fit the nest".
nest1.jpg (58.08 KiB) Viewed 1638 times

nest2.jpg
Nest of parts for both turrets hydraulic lines. Incomplete, as voids will be filled with small parts and fixings from turret cupola.
nest2.jpg (84.35 KiB) Viewed 1638 times

nest3.jpg
detail of bendable lines and (orange) escape-route for ram-wiring. The aim has been to have no visible servos or linkages not present on the full-size turret in shot from the FPV camera.
nest3.jpg (75.59 KiB) Viewed 1638 times

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » February 23rd, 2019, 8:43 pm

Lately I've been well and truly mired in CAD, finalising the nests of 3d parts for printing. This morning, however, the postman delivered a beautifully made brass collar, turned by a very talented chap on the ukmwg forums, who had previously made the lead-nut which travels on a lead-screw, propelling the business end of the ram. I've a whole load of stuff printing now, so hope to be getting back in the workshop soon, making new parts for the turret cupola structure, doors etc.

Video of the ram's parts at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRE4o42qaj4 When I have some suitable switches, I hope to demonstrate it moving.

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » March 27th, 2019, 12:35 am

Hi all.

I've recently started painting assembling the rear-turret cupola doors and "half-shell" opaque superstructure either side of said doors. Film here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_4R_dZR-ck

After much thought, I've decided to scrap all the drawings for the front-turret cupola and instead amend the rear-turret cupola. The reason for this is that I think the measurements from which I derived my front turret were actually from a Lanc, as comparison of the thicker-waisted cupola and photographs of real Wellington front turrets made it obvious that my rear-turret cupola is a much closer match in shape. So I need to amend the drawings by adding the access window in the lower right of the rear of the front turret, change one of the stanchions, lower the doors and change some of the rear turret cupola at the back. It's a bit galling to have spent so much time on the now redundant front turret drawings, but I think the end result will be better.

Alex Jones
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Alex Jones » March 29th, 2019, 10:37 pm

Awesome work Timothy!

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » March 30th, 2019, 7:41 pm

Cheers Alex. Spent today adapting the drawings of the rear-turret rh door, to correct some fairly numerous difficulties in putting together the linkages that operate the bolt and internal latch. The same drawings will be used to derive the mechanism for the front turret rh door, but without the internal latch of course, and with a different curvature to the top part of the door. The poor front gunner had to be let out of his turret by another crewmember, as there was a further weatherproof door behind the turret, which could only be opened from inside the fuselage.

Given the difficulty of bailing out in extremis, it was fairly common practice for front gunner's not to man their turrets except in daylight, or on low level raids for potting searchlights; as head-on attacks at night were vanishingly rare.

Not on the film, but I found the perfect spring (from an old 3&1/4" floppy drive!) to springload the arm to keep the bolt closed except when the latch is operated!

So, some reprinting required to address problems that arose with the first rh door build, but I get these from time to time.

How's your Sea-dart going? When it comes to painting the Pilot's name on the metalwork of the canopy, may I suggest "Col. Ander"
:-)

Timothy Huff
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Re: FN5 turrets for Wellington

Postby Timothy Huff » April 18th, 2019, 8:06 pm

Hi all,

No pictures this time, but I hope to post some in a few days time. The 3d printed parts for both cupola's, doors, locking mechanisms etc should arrive next week, whereafter there's the usual processing to tap threads etc, and of course a lot of painting. The rear-turret RH (port side of ac) door has had to be reprinted, as there were insurmountable errors in terms of allowing enough room for moving parts. Those are now corrected (I hope!) and the latch mechanism is now spring-loaded in the bolted position, using of all things, a little spring from inside a an old 3&1/4" pc floppy-drive, which proved perfect for the purpose!


The internal latch for the front-turret is deleted - it didn't have one. The hydraulics have been worked on, producing all the straight-runs with K&S metals 1/16th" and 1/32nd" brass tube, which will be married to 3d printed parts of the same diameters, glued and painted. That'll be fitted right at the very end, as it's jolly fragile.


I've been giving some thought to the elevation/depression rams, and think I'll run a thin metal driven shaft from one side of the turret to the other, low down and behind the two cross pieces that carry the lower ram brackets. On this axle will be two fixed gears, which will engage on a linear gear inside the ram. The rams will have to have a slot in the back, but as this is not visible from the gunner's point of view, it should satisfy the design aim of having no visible servos or linkages from that point of view. Better still, it will allow both rams to be powered, and because they're driven from a common drive, they can't get out of synch, which was always a weakness of the lead-screw ram. Probably how I should have designed it to start with. Pics to follow once that's drawn up.


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