Zenoah first time start

[Steve Mansell]

Hi all,
New to petrol (from glow). Z38, RCEXL ignition, insulator/standoff between carb and inlet port.

Can't get it to fire, but have turned it over loads by hand with the choke on. For the first prime do you have to squirt some in the carb, or should the choke draw enough in. Ign batt is ok (Full charge 4.8 v)

If anyone's passing through Farnborough, Kent, and could pop in and help, it will be rewarded with a pint or two in the Change of Horses!

Cheers,
Steve

[sean smith]

Hi Steve,
I've got 3 38's but mine are mag versions. You can flick mine all day long if you don't have the prop in the right place, you have to flick them through the compression at a decent speed. The chokes on my are enough to draw the fuel so the engines fire. Have you tried using a starter on it just to get it running?

[Steve Mansell]

Cheers Sean, too dark to carry on now! Cant use a starter as it slips off the prop nut. I'll have another go tomorrow. If I cant get it running I will pop the fus in the car and get it down the field where there is loads of petrol heads! (That's if it fits in the car!)
Steve

[sean smith]

Does it have the single prop bolt or is it the new multi-bolt design? If its the old style i line my props up with the prop driver mounting bolts that normally works.

[Steve Mansell]

It's the older style with a single bolt. I'll try that tomorrow. I know I've got a good spark, 'cos like a twit I was holding the cap, looking at the plug gap and turned the engine over with my forearm on the cylinder head! Quickest I've moved in years!

Steve

[Peter Clare]

Electric starter has to be the best bet! But it will be useful to check the spark plug if engine won't start. If dry, fuel is not getting through so you will have to prime the fuel lines and carb. If wet, engine is flooded. Dry it out completely with gas ring or gas torch until all the wet oil and fuel has burned off - then try again with plug still very hot, but mind your fingers on hot plug. This often works where all else fails.
(Rubber cone on starter can often be reversed to operate properly on crankshaft nut).

[sean smith]

Did you get it going Steve?

[Steve Mansell]

Not started yet, but I have taken carb off to check seals etc. and to make sure the little hole for the pulse is clear. Ill try again next weekend, but if no joy then its down to the field to see if the experts can help. My starters not man enough to turn it over, but once I have mastered hand starting that's not going to be a problem.

Thanks for the comments,
Steve

[Phil Clark]

Steve

Are you sure this thing is actually generating a spark?

Of all Zenoah's, the 38 is by far the easiest to hand start (not that that makes you feel better!!)......but if the carb is set at factory settings, all gaskets & insular are the right way round to ensure all ports are open and you are flicking it correctly, you should easily get it to fire if not run. If you are flicking & flicking and it's not even coughing, I'd suspect there is something more seriously wrong than simple starting technique.

Phil

[Steve Mansell]

Cheers Phil,
I think you may be right, not a cough or splutter at all! When I bought it, it was already converted to Rcxel ignition, but hadn't been run in this configuration. I will get a timing disc to check the small magnet is correctly set up. If all else fails I have the bits to convert it back to magneto if I have to.
Thanks all
Steve

[Steve Mansell]

Found the root of the problem: fuel not being sucked up. Tried turning over with thumb over intake and it was better, but not much. Took carb and insulator block off, took both covers off carb and checked it all for blockages etc. and made sure pulse passage from crank case was clear and not covered by gasket. reassembled it all, and now it won't suck up fuel at all. Disconnected fuel feed to carb and blew gently down fill tube with finger over vent, fuel flowed freely out the feed pipe, so I know its not a tank issue.

Looks like the next stage is a carb gasket set. I might have a spare carb off of a Z45, are they interchangeable?

Cheers
Steve

[Alan Cantwell 1131]

I got round a sim problem with a 62, i bought a diaphram kit off Phil, yet to run it, but it does pull fuel up now, the 45 carb wont fit, its a differant carb

[Steve Mansell]

Cheers Alan,
I'll order a gasket set and diaphram kit from Phil. (Makes you want to go leccy!)
Steve

[Alan Cantwell 1131]

if its deffo not sucking fuel, then do that, but my first stop would be removing the lekky ignition, and seeing if it runs on standard magneto, did you buy this from new, or is it an engine someone has tried to convert? is the woodfruff key in the crank? a member had a 38 that just would not pop, then he found the key sheared, this, of coarse, boogers the timing up

[Steve Mansell]

Al,
I bought the engine second hand, and had already had the mag and flywheel removed. It came fitted with an ign pickup/sensor and an extended prop shaft. Just tried it again and its definitely not sucking fuel at all, so will try Phil's bits first.
Can't go flying anyway, the car's broken down now!
Steve

[Mike Booth]

Steve, it's easy. Take the plug out. Spin it over on electric starter with choke on.
Watch the fuel pipe Suck in like a mother.
Put the plug back in.
Make sure the prop is in the 10 o'clock 4 o'clock position as you start to feel compression.
Flick the sod over with right hand on the 4 o'clock blade and if it doesn't start I'd be very surprised.
Key points, wet.....prop position......Use a glove.
M

[Simon Willey]

When you had the covers off and,did you remove the Diaphragm and make sure the inlet needle was not stuck. Its under the cover with the vent hole. There is a pivoted plate with a spring at one end and the valve at the other.Its not unusual for this to be stuck on its seat.
Its worth trying , costs nothing but time. Do it while its connected to the tank, add some pressure to the tank by blowing in the vent pipe,push open the valve. You should then get fuel out of the inlet needle.
If you do then reassemble and see if it now sucks fuel.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Simon

[Steve Mansell]

Thanks Simon.
Did as you suggested, and fuel flowed. Re-assembled but still no bang.

Mike, did that, seemed to suck ok, and could see wet vapour being blasted out of the plug hole.

Looking more like week spark, (or no spark) so will change plug tomorrow. I will not be beaten!

New to petrol, so I'm learning an awful lot with this. If every thing whent smoothly we wouldn't learn anything!

Cheers all for the help.
Steve

[John Greenfield]

As it has been converted to an electronic ignition it could be that the sensor has been put in up side down. Try turning the sensor over and hold it against the crankcase so the magnet can still pass it and see if it sparks then. The sensor is held in the housing by a small plastic wedge and the wedge can be carefully removed with the tip of a sharp knife. Once out, the sensor can be removed and turned over before re inserting the wedge to hold it in place.

[Mike Booth]

Yes, what John said.