Painting

Need technical help on some problem? Let us know and we will see what we can do
Andy Boylett
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Painting

Postby Andy Boylett » February 4th, 2011, 10:14 pm

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Last edited by Andy Boylett on May 12th, 2011, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Clark
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Re: Painting

Postby Phil Clark » February 5th, 2011, 8:11 am

Hi Andy

Being as I built & paint models for a living, you're more than welcome to pop up here, have a look at what gear I use and I can go through a few techniques etc... with you.

If your compressor is capable of running a 'car' size spray gun, that'll be fine....your gun may be a litle large for models, though if you choose a simple 2 colour paint scheme with large areas of block colour, again, it may be OK if you can 'turn it down' so to speak. If the scheme is more complex with smaller areas, you may need to look towards a mini spray gun or even a large airbrush that is a little more controllable.......both can be had fairly cheaply.

Phil

Andy Boylett
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Re: Painting

Postby Andy Boylett » February 5th, 2011, 9:31 am

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Last edited by Andy Boylett on May 12th, 2011, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Clark
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Re: Painting

Postby Phil Clark » February 5th, 2011, 7:09 pm

For large area coverage when I'm wanting to get paint down quick I use a 0.8mm HVLP gun (FMT-3600)....this I generally only use for primer & clear coats. For large area colour coats, I run a 0.6mm Iwata RG-3 mini spray gun.....this I find a lot more adjustabe & controllable than the HVLP gun so better for applying thinner coats of top coat colour. My airbrush is an Iwata Revolution TR-2....this has a 0.5mm needle and can still produce a fan up to about 1 1/2"......so is still good for medium area coverage.

All I'll say about buying spray gear is buy cheap, buy twice. From a good number of conversations I have with customers many of their problems are down to poor quality spray equipment rather than lack of ability or poor technique......there is nothing worse for someone new to spraying than having problems that you think are down to your own actions when infact it's equipment related.

Saying all this, no matter how good you or your equent may be, the enviroment you spray is in VITAL to the outcome of the job.......tidy up, sheet an area down from floot to ceiling, damp down surfaces every now and again to keep any dust down, and ideally, fit a simple extraction system.......

Phil
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Andy Boylett
Posts: 445
Joined: October 18th, 2010, 8:09 am
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Re: Painting

Postby Andy Boylett » February 5th, 2011, 11:26 pm

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Last edited by Andy Boylett on May 12th, 2011, 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Clark
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Re: Painting

Postby Phil Clark » February 6th, 2011, 10:33 am

I'll get back to ya later on........I'm on 'Dad' duty for most of the day.

Phil

Phil Clark
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Re: Painting

Postby Phil Clark » February 6th, 2011, 7:50 pm

Primer.....I'd stick to good old fashioned cellulose.......cheap & easy to use. Sourcing it can be an issue these days as many commercial paint stockist no longer carry much in the way of solvent based paints due to recent changes in legislation. I've seen 5ltr tins on evilbay, plus one of the local places to me in Gateshead can still get it.

With the colour scheme you have in mind, I'd go with a white primer rather than a traditional grey. Your white top coat will cover MUCH faster, and the white base will make the red nice & bright......some reds can turn a little deeper in tone with a medium grey primer.

Thinners....cellulose. The primer I use is normally thinned 60/40 (60 paint, 40 thinner)

Number of primer coats......I'd go with 2 with a light rub down between coats just to knock any imperfections off. Depending on how many coats of dope you've applied to seal the Diatex, this could also help fill the weave if you've been a little light on dope. Don't go overboard and be to aggressive with the rub down here as you run the risk or going back into the fabric on hard edges......I like using the fabric flatting pads intended for use on orbital buffing machines....used wet, these are very good and a little more gentle than wet & dry. 6-800 grade should be all you'll need.

Top coat.......over the past 4-5 years, I've become a real fan of water based top coats (namely Warbirdcolours.......I may be a little biased as I'm the European agent for this product....but hay ho!!) They are fast drying, very low odour and thinned with water makes switching between colours and final cleaning dead easy. This product is catalysed with a covalent bonder....once cured for 2-3 days, they are VERY hard wearing. The colours available are obviously all 'military' WW2 colours, but this does include a number of slightly different shades of white & red.

If you don't want to go the water based route, then I like solvent based acrylics for their ease of use, though the same problems apply to sourcing these as with cellulose....suppliers are fairly few & far between these days.

Both the water based & the acrylics give a satin finish....I assume you'd want a gloss, so I'd consider a gloss clear to finish the job and seal everything down. For me, there is only one to use and that's Klass Kote gloss clear. This is a 2 part epoxy based product. Stinks to high heaven, not cheap and quite time consuming to use (you can't just mix it & use it, you have to mix A & B together 50/50, wait 30-40 mins for the reaction to start, then add the reducer, then use it....and anything left over will be useless the next day).....but it does give a V good finish that is bullet proof to pretty much any solvent.

Masking....DON'T try and use cheap paper masking tape, it'll bleed all over the place, especially over fabric. Only use cheap paper tape to back off with newspaper.

For a model of this size, I wouldn’t paint the whole thing white then add the red over the top....the surface areas involved are large and it’ll add unnecessary weight. I’d mask the white, spray that, and then re-mask for the red.

All straight edges are best done with a plastic fineline tape (I use a 3M 6mm fineline tape)......slightly flexible, it will also go round corners as well. Plastic tapes seem to bleed a lot less than paper ones. For the tight corners in your scheme, I'd cut masks for masking film and combine these with the 6mm tape......they look pretty tight and it’s unlikely a fineline tape will go round them all without the odd crease.

The main tip I have when applying the 2nd colour to help prevent it bleeding under the tape is to go over ALL edges with the base colour (white in this case) first....this seals the edge of the tape, but if any paint does bleed under, it's the same colour as the base so will be invisible once the masking is removed. Let the base colour dry, then start on with the main colour.......light dust coats 1st just to get colour on the surface, followed with a final flow coat that once cured will give you the nice smooth finish. If you hit it with a heavy coat straight away and the white hasn't sealed the tape edges completely, the red may still bleed.....apply a couple of light dust coats first and the chances are dramatically reduced. Again, a gentle flat back between coats is a wise move to remove any imperfections, dust particles etc... that may have got on the job as you go. I'd generally expect to build the colours up in around 3 coats.

When removing masks, I never wait until the paint is 100% cured, I find if the paint is still V slightly soft, it leaves a crisper edge as the soft paint peels better than completely dry paint that can sometime chip. Always pull a mask off away from a painted edge whilst keeping the tape/film as flat to the surface as you can.

Hope that helps............

Phil

Tony Collins 1073
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Re: Painting

Postby Tony Collins 1073 » February 6th, 2011, 8:17 pm

Well done Phil. That's a lot of typing for you, but you are always ready to give your time to helping us lesser mortals.
I'm sure there will be a lot of grateful people out there---- me included. :D

Barrie King
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Joined: December 4th, 2008, 9:35 pm
Location: Retford, Notts

Re: Painting

Postby Barrie King » February 6th, 2011, 9:53 pm

Phil, could you tell me approx how much Warbird black I would need to paint an 11ft Lanc?

Thanks,
Barrie

Phil Clark
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Re: Painting

Postby Phil Clark » February 6th, 2011, 11:27 pm

Barrie King wrote:Phil, could you tell me approx how much Warbird black I would need to paint an 11ft Lanc?

Thanks,
Barrie


Hi Barrie

Coverage is excellent, so 2 x 1/2 pint tins should do you.......maybe 3 to be on the safe side to give you enough to do a few test pieces if you haven't used the product before. Application is a little different to solvent products as goes thinning quantity (as low as 10% using 0.6mm guns or bigger), so if you have been a solvent sprayer until now, it'll take a short time to get used to and dial the paint consistency and pressure requitements into the gun.

Phil


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